TBH most studies could be done better,but it depends on who is funding the studies and why.

ideally using sets of twins at different ages and fitness levels in a laboratory enviroment ie food intake and other variables all monitored would be great but it isnt going to happen.

as far as the bis being used during the chins at some point yes they are going to take all the weight of your body,they may not contract fully on say things like deadlifts etc but do they need to to ellicit growth i dont think so,as long as you engage the fibres that should be enough.
also the body works sytemicly not localised.

the bis are gonna take all the weight of your body? what do you mean?

as long as you engage the fibers that should be enough? I think it depends on a lot more than that. Both how "hard" they contract, metabolic factors, etc.

during a chin at some point the bis are going to take all the weight (or most) anyhow much more than a curl.

once you lift 85% of your 1rm you engage all fibres,as long as you do enough reps/sets to give enough TUT etc IMO a deadlift/chins etc will produce bigger gains in your arms than curls will,mainly due to the extra load used.

where in the movement will the biceps take all the load? the biceps can't extend the shoulder joint, which is needed in a chin or pullup.

And yes, 85% of 1rm will usually engange all the fibers that you can activate, but that doesn't mean the muscle is contracting with maximal force, as you have rate coding to consider aswell.

Are you saying an 85% of 1rm deadlift will recruit all your biceps fibers? the biceps isn't THAT involved in deadlifting..

I'm not saying chins and pullups aren't the way to go to get big arms, I just don't agree that doing isolation exercises in addition can't help.

Well exactly,

Of course you need to do isolation in addition to get maximum bicep development. All top BB's do, infact i bet ALL BB's do.

Thats enough said in itself isn't it really

No.....

Not, if you are talking a steroid induced BB'er, what applies to them doesn't apply to a natural, and to even think about following a program designed for them with their steroid induced improved recovery, etc, etc, is not smart.

Good morning Biggie-T........sup?

Hope your day goes well!

Chillen

ask natural bodybuilders then.

gymnasts/powerlifters never do curls but take a look at there bis,how do you account for that.

also i never said dont do curls obviously any muscle that is trained will grow,but if i was to start a begginer i wouldnt add bis/tris to his routine untill he reached a platue in arm growth.
and karky you dont believe the bicep is involved in a deadlift it certainly is in a chin/pulldown/b-o-r etc etc

He said they aren't THAT involved, not that they aren't involved, lets not twist people's words

tha was not my intention.

The Effect of Supplemental Isolated Weight-Training Exercises on Upper-Arm Size and Upper-Body Strength

RA Rogers, RU Newton, KP McEvoy, EM Popper, BK Doan, JK Shim, LR Bolt, JSVolek, and WJ Kraemer.

Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research, 14(3)3, Aug 2000 (p369)

The aim of this study was to examine the hypothesized additional
training effect of programming isolated supplemental exercises in
conjunction with compound weight-training exercises on muscle size and strength. Seventeen national-level baseball players volunteered to partite in this 10-week training study and were randomly divided into 2 groups. The control group completed a 10-week training program consisting of the bench press, lat pull-down, dumbbell incline press and dumbbell 1-arm row exercises. The treatment group completed the same training program but with the addition of biceps curl and triceps extension exercises. A tape measure was used to record upper-arm cirferences, and a 5 repetition maximum (5RM) was determined on the bench press and lat pull-down for each subject before and after training.

Both the treatment and control groups displa significant increases in upper-arm cirference (6.6 and 6.5%, respectively), 5RM bench press (21.4 and 22.1%, respectively) and 5RM lat pull-down (15.7 and 14.5%, respectively). There were no significant differences between the groups in the percentage change before and after training. The findings of this study suggest that isolation exercises are not necessary in order to increase compound movement strength or increase upper-arm girth. These findings also suggest that strength coaches can save time by not including isolation exercises and still achieve increases in strength and size.

10 weeks study won't be able to tell small differences, at least not with statistical significance.

About the gymnasts, like I said, pullups and chins will make your biceps grow, I never said they didn't. I just said that I don't see what's wrong with adding additional arm isolation. Without being able to find and read the entire study I can't really comment much more on it. But I do feel like you're twisting my words. Nothing I had ever said in this thread would suggest that gymnasts shouldn't have big arms.

also, I'm not able to find any other studies on the same subject.

I find it odd how you guys are arguing a point that is individual. What works for one may not work for another. There is not best method. There are different methods. IMO the answer is to workout, put in some time and find at works for YOU.

very true, it is very individual.

F**k it, if you do pull ups & curls your calfs will grow.

Simple.