Originally Posted by spicypumpkin

Maybe some advice from a different perspective will do you some good.

I too have been obsessed with trying to gain weight. I'm just naturally skinny. I found this site and picked up some info, but a lot of it, I just took too seriously. Yeah, it's great to try and eat "clean" all of the time. It also feels good to count all of your calories. The underlying thing is that it feeds the thing inside of you that craves control. I think a lot of body image problems come from deep rooted control issues. If you feel out of control in other places in life, you try to seek control in building the perfect body.

Now, I congratulate you on recognizing that you have a problem and taking action to get healthier physically. The thing is, you can't just change the routine, and become controlling in the opposite way. If you were controlling what you were eating in order to lose a huge amount of weight, using the same desire for control to gain it back isn't going to heal the hurt inside of you. There comes a point when you have to realize that it's not about the weight. It's about you, and how you deal with anything in life that stresses you.

Now, I think the reason these "cheat" meals are bothering you so much is because you're still trying to be in complete control of yourself and the foods that you eat. The fact of the matter is, eating a bunch of food will help you gain weight. But you seem to feel that "letting go" and eating for fun or comfort is ruining your plan because you don't feel like you're controlling every bite you put in. Basically, you're still thinking like an anorexic, but you're just trying to gain weight.

Now there are people that will tell you you have to gain weight in a certain way. They'll say you have to count calories, and record everything you eat. Now I think, for a recovering anorexic, that is the worst possible advice. I really think you need to work on your emotions first. Forget about the food for a while. Don't count calories, don't record what you eat. Don't try to eat more or less. Just listen to your body for a while, and see where you are. I think some counseling might also help for you. The people on this forum are certainly well intentioned, and many of us try our hardest to give the best advice, but very few of us are trained counselors. So, if you feel comfortable, look in to finding a counselor that specializes in eating disorders.

Now anyway, back to my story. I found this forum. Followed a lot of this advice, and tried to eat clean and count calories. It was a disaster. I felt terrible about eating anything that wasn't "clean" and I felt terrible when I couldn't get enough calories. I ended up losing more weight from the discouragement. Counting calories works for a lot of people who need the structure. But for people with too much structure or too much of a desire for it, counting calories can be torture.

What I'm trying to do now, is just eat. Eat when I'm hungry, eat a reasonable amount, and stop when my body says that I absolutely cannot eat another bite. I also let myself eat out at my favorite fast food place, panda express, once a week. It does two things, it gives me the extra calories that I need, and it lets me enjoy some really tasty food. I've learned not to feel bad about it because I know that overall, I'm a really healthy person. I exercise like I'm supposed to and I don't eat huge amounts of processed junk. I can afford to eat out every once in a while. I think a lot of it is just learning to let go. No one can be perfect, and fortunately, the human body is pretty resilient. A few slices of pizza every once in a while is not likely to give you heart disease. It's when you're eating a pizza 5 days a week that it gets bad. It's really just about using common sense.

Originally Posted by Dallen

It seems your problem though is an inner conflict. You are having an odd system of reward and punishment. It seems you reward yourself with "cheats" then punish yourself with "junk." Remove this system of reward and punishment. It also seems you have a list of "good" and "bad" food. It seems like when you have a case of "bad" food, you punish yourself. Then when you have a case of "good" food, you "reward" yourself with "bad" food - ie you have yourself a "cheat" meal.

Ask yourself why do you have this system of good and bad food? You're only limiting it by your own artificial standards.

Of course paying attention to your diet is important. However, when you create an artificial reward/punishment system, you create an illusion that your diet must be perfect or else. Counting calories is not for everyone. It seems in your case, you reward yourself by counting calories, then punish yourself when you're not.

I think you should talk it out with a family member. However, sometimes family members have a hard time understanding your problem. They might tell you to walk it off or that you worry too much, but then it will become an even bigger problem when no one acknowledges your problem. Of course, finding a solution will be hard. I think the very best thing to do is seek someone to talk it out. You might respond well to a group of people you can talk face to face who had similar problems.

I also agree with Spicy. You should talk to someone who understands these type of problems. You might find it very well to go there. You can also try tape recording your thoughts. Then play it back a few days later and laugh at how ridiculous you sound like. I tried that one day, and I laughed at myself. I was pretty angry with something, then I talked it out on the computer recorder, and replayed it a few days later and laughed at how ridiculous I sounded. Sometimes you just don't know how silly something is until you look at it again in a few days or hours.

Originally Posted by Safeboy43

Thanks for your reply, spicy. This was probably the most helpful advice I have ever received from anyone.

To start, I would like to say that I don't feel "restricted" by counting my calories. Of course, I did before when I restricted myself to 1000k a day but I didn't care then. Others gave me similar advice to stop counting for a while and see what happens. I did and it was a disaster. I ate too much of the wrong stuff and felt like crap because I did not know if I had the right macro nutrient balance or even enough calories. As a result, my workouts suffered because I thought I was wasting my time.

You are right about the cheats, though. In the entire time I have included these "cheats" I think I only had one "good" day which was my first. I counted all my cheat calories and just paid no attention to macros. However, on the next few I stopped counting and just used it as an excuse to eat irresponsibly. That would be in the form of eating 6 bagels or vacuuming back an entire large pizza and carrying the bad habits on for the rest of the day. That became a habit for a week and I suffered the consequences.

Recently, I am still having trouble with it. I don't really crave cheat foods but it just seems to be a massive amount of food that I crave. I'm down to three, high calorie/cheat days now but I'm still frustrated with myself. Oh well, time will tell.

Thank you again, spicy

Originally Posted by spicypumpkin

I'm glad you found my advice helpful. One thing I'm seeing is that you're placing A LOT of emphasis on you calories/macro nutrient ratios. I understand what you're trying to do, but I think this may just be another symptom of the original eating disorder. Like I said, it's not about the food, it's about your own desire to have control over what you put in your body. You really don't need to know your exact macro nutrient ratio. You just need to use common sense when you eat.

The problem with precisely counting everything is that you feel terrible when you don't meet a certain guideline. Like I said, the body is resilient. You're not going to become obese or get heart disease if you eat a little more fat one day than you think you're supposed to. And if you get into a regular healthy routine, you won't need to depend on calorie counting to be sure you've eating the right amount. Ideally, you want to be able to eat when you're hungry, stop when you're full and maintain a healthy weight. Right now, you're not on track to that. You are strictly recording everything you eat, giving yourself these "cheat" meals, and beating yourself up over it. I think this is only stressing you out and making you feel worse about yourself.

My recommendation would be, get rid of these "cheat" meals. If you feel like eating something tasty, go ahead and eat it, but don't call it a "cheat" meal. Make it a part of your every day diet. And because calorie counting borders on obsessive behaviour, I would strongly recommend that you refrain from it for a while. It may be painful at first, but that's the addiction to control speaking. It really is like coming off of a drug. What you can do, is determine a routine of what and how much to eat that will leave a margin of error for you to meet your caloric needs. Remember, it doesn't have to be exact. Just determine that sensible amount of food. The margin of error should make up for days when you don't eat enough or eat a little more than planned. This is different from calorie counting in that it does not have to be exact. Before humans even knew what calories were, we managed to survive in the wild. And, we didn't always eat the same amount every day. Some days were good hunting days, and other days weren't. You don't need to get the exact number of calories every day. Trying to do it will end up stressing you out.

Okay, so once you have set up these ROUGH guidelines. Stick to it for 2 weeks. Don't count calories. It should be unnecessary since you've already planned out your meals. After 2 weeks, see how you feel. If you're still craving that control, just stick with it. Ideally, you want to be able to eat, be healthy, stress free and happy.

Originally Posted by spicypumpkin

Great. I think whatever helps you relax and be at ease with the whole thing is the right choice for you. If counting calories helps you feel better about yourself and helps you relax then that's what you should do. I think it's all about minimizing stress levels. If counting calories really doesn't stress you out, then by all means, do it.

Just remember to keep everything in check. And, like you said, if you feel like eating more one day, don't stress out about it. Now, I think you're in a learning stage. You're learning how to achieve and maintain a healthy weight in a healthy weight. I commend you for coming this far. Eating disorders can be very difficult, and it's clear that you've made a lot of progress. Keep it up.