This is the possible change in my routine b.c. the last one had too much volume. I was thinking of it all night : ).

Day 1- Vertical Push/Vertical Pull/Biceps
Chest Dips+Push Press/Chin ups/Preacher Curls

Day 2- Legs (Combined Quad and Hip Movements)
Squat+Bulgarian Squat/Deadlift/Shrugs

Day 3- Horizontal Push/Horizontal Pull/Triceps
Bench Press+Incline BP/One Arm Rows/Extensions

Week 3 rotation: T-bar Rows for Incline BP/Close Grip Bench for Extensions

Champr23-

It looks pretty good, the only change that I would make is to find a bi-lateral rowing exercise on day 3, instead of the unilateral one. I follow King's work in that there is a method to my madness. If you want to "peak" your bench press (who doesn't?), you will want to strengthen the assistance muscles as much as possible. So your first 3 week phase would look like what you have but the exercise order would be...

Phase 1
Day 1- Biceps/Vertical Pull/Vertical Push
Preacher Curls/Chin ups/Dips or Seated Shoulder Press or Push Press

Day 2- Legs (Combined Quad and Hip Movements)
Squat+Bulgarian Squat/Deadlift/Shrugs

Day 3- Triceps/Horizontal Pull/Horizontal Push
Extensions/Bent Over Rows or Seated Cable Rows/Incline BP

Phase 2
Day 1- Vertical Push/Vertical Pull/Biceps
Dips or Seated Press or Push Press/Chin ups/Preacher Curls

Day 2- Legs (Combined Quad and Hip Movements)
Squat+Bulgarian Squat/Deadlift/Shrugs

Day 3- Triceps/Horizontal Pull/Horizontal Push
Flat BP/Bent Over Rows or Seated Cable Rows/Extensions

Phase 3

Day 1- Horizontal Push/Biceps
Flat BP/Barbell Curl

Day 2- Quad and Hip
Back Squat/Deadlift

Day 3- Vertical Pull or Vertical Push (pick one to peak)/Triceps
Chin Up or Shoulder Press/Lying Triceps Extensions

Each phase stay on for 3-4 weeks

Good luck and great job!

-Andrew

http://www.Modern-Athlete.com

Good stuff. Go to it, Champr.

Did you stop making progress with the old program? If not, then don't switch it just yet. If form is the number one important thing in training, then consistensy is the good #2. The biggest mistake and the most commonly done (after not consentrating on form) is not keeping up to the plan as long as should (a whole another thing is not having a plan at all...). Always use the program you have for as long as it works.

I know how you're feeling right now, I sure have done my share of sleepless nights planning on training and nutrition and being so excited about it all. But sleep is one of the most important factors in achieving your goals and you definitely shouldn't sacrifice any hour of sleep for anything as irrelevant as thinking about a training program.

Your program looked good, keep at it. And don't get me wrong, the program you now planned looks good also, as does Andrew Smith's. I know it's hard to keep at the old one, if you know there would be a better one, trust me, in fact I'm in that situation right now, but it'll be the wisest thing to do.

MIR-

I agree that a program should be followed for awhile, but the human body adapts quickly to stimuli. It only takes around 4-6 exposures for a certain workout before the body has adapted to it. In general the body adapts faster to reps and set parameters, as opposed to exercises themselves (which can be varied due to hand placement, foot placement, leverages, etc). The best thing you or anyone can do is switch programs PRIOR to adaptation. Ian King and Alwyn Cosgrove both work within the context of this fact and write programs that can be used in 2, 3, or 4 week phases and then parameters are changed to introduce a new stimulus. Thats why its important to keep long term goals in mind when designing a program, as it allows continuity from phase to phase. Your old workout journals can give you ideas when that switch should occur! If you feel flat and bored after 2 weeks, SWITCH! If you feel great after 4 weeks, SWITCH. I'm not saying throw out your whole plan, but to switch up load, reps, sets, rests, whatever variables you wish. Make it fun!

-Andrew

http://www.Modern-Athlete.com

Thanks for all the replies.

Andrew. For my program, I wanted to actually to do both Dips and Push press. Along with Bench Press and Incline Bench Press. I know im changing the actual program. It's simply not enough total volume if don't. I thought about it and the chest and back work favors back if you do a week 3 rotation of T-bar rows for Incline BP. I already am doing those 3 chest exercises in the week and its working. If I don't add push press there is no shoulders in the entire week : (.

I like your phases. I may implement them. I see that your using them because your factoring that your more tired at the beginning and end of workout along with in the week. I'm not exactly looking to 'peak' though I just wanted to gain muscle mass.

MIR! My squat buddy : ). No, I didn't stop making progress all in all but I just decided to take what was working and scratch what wasn't. i.e. In my older program, I ended up squatting and deadlifting 1 time a week on average and could never make up the lost time. Essentially, the program is very similar if I don't end up changing it again.

Champr23-

If you would like to do Dips and Push Press and Flat Bench and Incline Bench, then go for the glory!

However, I prefer to "cap" my session at a certain amount of sets, regardless of the reps. I have found that trying to find the LEAST amount of work possible to make gains is optimal. Because once you have that established, you can always increase volume over time. I generally stay within 12-24 TOTAL worksets. So essentially you do not have to totally drop dips, etc, just alot them less sets...

For example...

Phase I Day 3

Tri-Set (Horizontal Push)
Incline DB Bench Press- 21s
Decline DB Bench Press- 10 Reps-1 and 1/3s
Flat Bench Press- Wide Grip- 6-8

Total Sets for Horizontal Push (3)

Phase II Day 3 (I made a typo- It should be Horizontal Push/Horizontal Pull/Triceps)

Flat Barbell Bench Press- Medium Grip- 2 x 6-8, 1 x 8-10, 1 x 12-15

Triceps- Extremely Close Grip Bench Press (6"-8")- 2 x 8-10

Total Sets for Horizontal Push (6)

Phase III Day 1

Flat Barbell Bench Press- Medium Grip (Whatever Grip you can do the most weight)
-5/4/3/5/4/3/8-10/12-15

Total Sets for Horizontal Push (8)

This way you get to do alot of exercises early, then specialize on your favorites in later phases. Notice the increase in sets devoted to Horizontal Push, as the phases progress. A short term de-emphasis of benching will lead to a long term success and more than likely a personal best!

Another general note, I like to do slow(er) speed movements in earlier phases, progressing into faster speed movements... For example incorporating the Push Press...

Phase I-

Standing Barbell Shoulder Press
Standing DB Shoulder Press
Arnold Press

Phase II-

Push Press
DB Push Press

Phase III-

Push Jerk

Just some food for thought dude!

Good Luck!

-Andrew

Ok man. Wow. Thats some complicated shyt. Lets see here. I see your point on the short term de-emphasis of the bench press, but I don't need that because I have only been lifting steadily for 5 months. Plus, im not the type who did only bench and biceps curls.

As for your speed movements, seems like it could be helpful but really I don't want to complicate my routine right now when it doesn't need to.

Basically, this is what im thinking. Right now im concerned ab mass. I don't know if I want to do the phases because im not sure if its even still effective. What I would do is do the phases 1, 2, and 3 but only change the order of movements. Possibly, when I get to phase 3, I could drop 2-3 movements if im big enough by then : ). I wAnT tO HaVe BiG gUnS.

Also, for your total sets which is 12-24. I planned on doing 12 for each day.(exculding abs and an extra set or 2 for bi's or tri's) I want to go 3X10 for everything except deadlift 3X5 (3X8 as I get stronger), Push press 3X8, and T-Bar rows 3X8. The only thing thats uneven right now is 2 vertical push and 1 vertical pull but i don't want to add another whole vertical pull. hmmm... Maybe extra sets of chinups or go 2X10 and 2X10 but that wouldn't even be effective.

I am aware I jacked your program up A LOT. :0. Anyway, good luck back at you. Your program outline does RoCk. ; ).

Squat buddy...


Sounds good then. Just remember to keep it simple as of now; you don't need no Ian King's theories, you only need to lift, eat and sleep.

After thinking a bit more:

Day 1- Vertical Push/Vertical Pull/Biceps
Chest Dips+Push Press/Chin ups/Preacher Curls

Day 2- Legs (Combined Quad and Hip Movements)
Squat+Bulgarian Squat/Deadlift/Shrugs

Day 3- Horizontal Push/Horizontal Pull/Triceps
Db Bench Press/T-Bar Rows+One Arm Rows/Extensions

Weekly rotation: Incline BP for T-bar Rows/Close Grip Bench for Extensions
(Row varation: Bench, Bent, or Pendaly Rows for T-bar Rows)

That list looks good. Now go to it.

Anyone think its a faulty routine because I don't focus on a muscle group each day? Or think I should try to get in 4 days a week to be more effective?

I don't understand why one would want to do a bodypart training split. The greatest strongmen of the early 20th century never did body part splits, nor did some great early bodybuilders. It wasn't until steriods were introduced that bodypart training was heavily advocated due to the body's ability to recover far more quickly from higher volumes of training, and with that in mind it didn't matter if someone used a body part split. As far as your proposed split...

Day 1- Vertical Push/Vertical Pull/Biceps
Chest Dips+Push Press/Chin ups/Preacher Curls

Day 2- Legs (Combined Quad and Hip Movements)
Squat+Bulgarian Squat/Deadlift/Shrugs

Day 3- Horizontal Push/Horizontal Pull/Triceps
Db Bench Press/T-Bar Rows+One Arm Rows/Extensions

Weekly rotation: Incline BP for T-bar Rows/Close Grip Bench for Extensions
(Row varation: Bench, Bent, or Pendaly Rows for T-bar Rows)

The second day looks great. I am extrememely happy with that set up. As for day 1 and 3, if you want to use dips to hit chest, move it to the horizontal push catagory (it can be used as both a V. Push and H. Push) and make a Barbell Shoulder Press or Push Press your staple Vertical Push. DB Bench is good, but if you are looking for loading, you may want to stick to BB incline and Flat bench press. I don't understand why you would swap a horizontal press for a horizontal pull (Incline Press for T-Rows)? It could be more like this, if you keep dips were they are.

Day 1- Dips+Push Press/Chin Ups + Pull Overs/Curls
Day 3- Incline Press+DB Press/T-Row+1-Arm Row/Extensions

This way it is fairly balanced as you have 2 vertical push/ 2 vertical pull/ 2 horizontal push/ 2 horizontal pull.

Hopefully that helps you out!

-Andrew
http://www.Modern-Athlete.com

Andrew yea that helps! Just wasn't sure of break-up effectiveness. I'll try this routine. Hopefully, I won't get too sore and have to take a day off like my last routine. If its too much, I may try to go back to 1VPush/1VPull/1Hpush/1Hpull.

Day 1- Vertical Push/Vertical Pull/Biceps
Dips+Db press/Chin Ups+Pull Overs/Curls

Day 2- Legs (Combined Quad and Hip Movements)
Squat+Step Ups/Deadlift/Shrugs

Day 3- Horizontal Push/Horizontal Pull/Triceps
Incline BP+Bench Press/Db Row+Seated Row/Extensions

Weekly rotation: Close Grip Bench for Extensions

Order and Reps:

Day 1
Chins- 3X10
Pullovers- 3X10
Dips- 3X10
Db press- 2X10
Curls-3X10

Day 2
Deadlift- 3X8
Squat- 3X8
Step ups- 3X10
Shrugs- 3X10

Day 3
Db Row- 3X8
Seated Row- 3X10
Incline BP- 3X10
BP- 2X10
Extensions- 3X10

Remember if soreness begins to be a problem, I would sacrifice volume (sets) over intensity. Not because I am a HIT advocate, but because muscle tissue is stimulated more by intensity than volume, you still want that stimulus, even if the volume is relatively low.

Like Dips you might do 3-4 sets, if you are feeling off, cut down to 2 sets for as heavy as you can manage.

Typical Volume for day 1 could be...

3 Sets Dips
2 Sets Push Press

3 Sets Chins
2 Sets Pull Overs

2 Sets Curl

Every 3rd or 4th week, reduce volume by half,

2 Dips
1 PP

2 Chins
1 PO

1 Curl

The next week you'll come back fresher and stronger, guaranteed!

-Andrew