Hello...I'm not new but its been since April that I've been here...and boy can I feel it, I'm 41 female, 5'5 approx. 140 lbs..I want to get down to 125 I have fatigue issues and even so I workout regardless I just know I need to kick it up and start sweating more. I had a question for anyone that watches the biggest loser! how in the world do they lost that much weight in such a short time (weekly)?

First, they are grossly obese, so even though they are loosing 10-20 pounds in a week they are loosing a small percentage of their body weight and/or body fat. Second, they loose weight in the most unhealthy way possible: excessive calorie restriction and long duration, low intensity exercise! That is very hard to sustain in the long term.

What do you consider 'excessive' in terms of calorie restriction for someone in these contestant's shoes?

Why is it unhealthy?

And why is long duration, low intensity exercise bad for these people?

Healthy weight loss is 1-2 pounds per week, maybe 3-5 for a grossly obese individual. So anything that causes 10, 20 or more pounds of weight loss in a week would be considered unhealthy.

Around 500 calories under maintenance level is considered a healthy weight loss intake. If you calculated the maintenance calorie level of these people, you would probably find something well in excess of 2000, so a healthy weight loss calorie intake would have to be 1500+ calories. I understand the show puts these people on 800-1200 calorie diets, essentially starvation diets, which are known to fail in the long term because they don't provide the basic nutrition required for good health and tend to throw your hormone levels and metabolism out of balance. Starvation diets also lead to dispropotionate loss of lean body mass verses body fat.

Multiple, long duration low intensity exercise sessions per day, especailly for individuals who are not conditioned to them, result in excessive water loss, hormone imbalance, mineral imbalance, and disproportionate loss of lean body mass; all unhealthy things.

Welcome. What kind of fatigue issues?

Why?

Oh, this can be used as your explanation.

I hadn't heard they go down to 800-1200 calories. But this said, you can't make blanket statements like hormones get out of whack and you lose muscle. It's a different game when your dealing with people who are carrying around 100s of extra lbs.

Context.

And PSMF have been used with people in said condition with a lot of success, for those who are mentally capable of doing such a diet.

Muscle loss is not a concern, nor is screwing up metabolism.

What is so magic about the number ' 500 ' ?

If a maintenance level is 3,500+ calories in one person and a maintenance level is 2,000 calories for another person - why should 500 calories under maintenance be applied to both cases equally ?

Perhaps it might be better to say 15%- 20% under maintenance level ?

Thoughts ?

Hydrate well - both before and during and after - exercise ...problem solved ?


Which hormones are you referring to exactly ?

If the exercise is " multiple, long duration & low intensity " - and assuming ( can we ? ) people have adequate fat and glycogen stores available...why would this lead to a " disproportionate loss of lean body mass " ?

Can you elaborate ?

I don't watch the biggest loser but the way to lose weight as i have done is by :-

1). Eat at a caloric deficit (500 is the suggested level to lose a pound of weight each week).

2). Exercise vigorously for an hour each day.

3). Drink plenty of mineral water, take a multivitamin and fish oil supplements.

4). Avoid fad/crash diets

Let me remind people that blanket advice is fine and dandy, but when dealing with specific populations, you have to be a little more specific. And the application of what is often blanketly advised on forums such as this isn't applicable to each individual sub-class of the weight-loss-minded population.

The obese sub-class being a primary example.

Oh my godz, the horrid starvationz modez!!!!11111 is a stupid thing to talk about when dealing with someone who is 200+ lbs overweight.

Speaking of the show specifically, its primary goal is to establish a captive audience and make money. Let's not forget that. It's a business before it's a weight-loss tool. A 500 calories/day deficit isn't going to satisfy this primary goal using contestants who have maintenance calorie intakes of 5000+. It's a business and part of the business is selling the hype of big numbers in regards to weekly weight losses.

Does this make the show horrible?

Of course not. If anything, it shows people that losing weight no matter your current status is possible. I know more people the show has helped than it has hurt. It serves as motivation to many to get up and get moving.

The only negative I can see coming from the show is the idea that it can create false hopes. People who really don't have a clue might expect the same kind of losses you see on the show. All it takes though, is a little common sense to realize that the contestants are living and breathing weight loss every minute of the day in a boot-camp-style atmosphere. To expect those kinds of results, you'd need to be in that type of setting, logically.

I think the last thing we need to worry about as a repercussion to the show is obese people experiencing symptoms of the starvation mode and losing muscle. That's almost comical to me and shows a gross misunderstanding of the physiology and biology surrounding said factors in the context of obesity.

Read up on the criticisms of the show such as the daily 4 hour exercises and the hospital visits etc. Example - 4 hours of exercise not for a fitness buff but a complete newbie and an obese one who is going to experience knee joint pain etc.

I know about that.

Look, I'm not saying the show is perfect. And I sure as hell wouldn't be training my clients the way the show does. At least not the marathon sessions and the high impact stuff.

But that's not what I contested above.

I'm simply talking about the dieting side of things and blanket advice in that regard.

I think the point being overlooked here is the human body is only designed to process a certain amount of nutritional intake, water intake and body fat in a 24 hour period. When you exceed that level, then you create an unhealthy situation. And if you take a person who is obese in the first place, and probably has weakened cardio-vascular, digestive, recuperative and immune systems, then the healthy level is probably even lower.

I don't think anybody would argue that point. All TV is about making money first and any other side benefits are collateral damage (ie, paying out prize money, paying for hospital and doctor visits or paying to build new houses for the unfortunate, etc.)!

What is one of the biggest reason most individuals fail in their fitness goals? They have unrealistic expectations of the amount of time and effort required to achieve their goals and give up when they don't experience immediate results. I would argure that the show only magnifies this problem and sets up more people to fail.

I agree, every individual is different, and even the same individual experiences changes over time as thier fitness level, age, body composition, mental state, stress level, etc. change. What works for one person, may not work the same for any other, but there are certain limitations on the human body that are somewhat universal; things like adequate nutrition (protien, good fats, vitamins, minerals, etc.), adequate rest and recovery time, etc. If you don't follow those minimum requirements the long term result could be irreversable damage of some kind.

Of course, you could argue, as Stoutman seems to be, that the obese condition is more damaging than the "crash" or "starvation" diet and therefore the crash diet is the lesser of 2 evils. And as he pointed out the people on the show have 24 hour access to doctors and hospitals that the average person does not have, which may mitgate some of the possible side effects.

No, you are missing my point.

We've kind of comingled two seperate issues. I'm to blame for this primarily.

1) The shows 'good' or 'evil' outcome played out to the masses who watch the show.

2) The effects associated with 'deep deficit' dieting in the obese.

I'm more concerned with #2 and what you originally stated about muscle mass and starvation mode.

Those comments of yours were the root of my original statements on context and blanket advice. The bigger you are (the more fat you carry), the deeper of an energetic deficit you can maintain safely. Keep psychology out of the picture. Certainly, many people are not going to be able to mentally maintain a deep energetic deficit due to their desire for satiate themselves.

But keep this in the context of the show. If they are getting all of their essential nutrients in, why is the deep energetic deficit unsafe for obese people such as those on the show?

I had 2 major problems with the regimine used on the show:

1. "deep energetic" deficit diet (<1200 calories per day): can they actually get all the essential nutrients in on this diet?

2. lots of long duration, low intensity exercise: is this healthy, especially in individuals who are not conditioned to this activity level?

And I have a problem with the result caused by the 2 things above: weight loss of 10, 20 or more pounds per week. I would argue that this causes a huge stress on the body, imparing the immune system, possibly damaging internal organs, causing joint damage, etc.

Thanks for the comments - Interesting. Tony, I'm not sure why I have fatigue issues, working on that with Doc...numerous test come back on a positive note which I guess is good but not when your not sure why your so tired. I eat well and work out so its not lack of poor diet etc...I'm going to work harder now that I'm "over 40"..gawd!!!