Actually, I was just wondering what you do now as a general rule - i.e when you have a typical breakfast nowadays, do you include carbs ?

Also, a bit of an aside.......curious, how many years have you been weight training now Karky ?

well I used to have carbs before I started the low carb thing, during that I didn't have carbs. Now I'm following massive eating principles, and according to that, on off days you should still have 1-2 insulin spikes during the day, so I'm thinking of going with carbs for breakfast on off days, but not on training days.

I've been training for like 2 years I think.. maybe 2.5

I would have carbs for breakfast every day. Most BB types I know (as well as myself when I cut weight) eat carbs for breakfast. (actually I eat carbs for breakfast all the time) Usually it is whole oats with protein. I like to have a grapefruit as well.

Carbs are what kick-starts your metabolism in the morning. They are also what your body needs, so its a win-win.

Noooooo kidding!


I looked back to my food log and typically it is 75-100g It's pretty much just carbs at breakfast, 1 serving of oatmeal, and then some veggies throughout the day.


About the breakfast thing Karky... breakfast is a catabolic period because we have been fasting all night. The reason to eat carbs is to turn this catabolic period into an anabolic period.

Everything I would have said has already been said so I'll just repeat.

Up your calories. If you're getting around 300g of protein a day then most of the up should come from carbs. And since you're scared of carbs 6hrs after a workout it tells me that you've got a place to put them, along with in the morning. Although I generally agree with G about the strength increase in the higher BF% I don't really recommend it. MOST people, obviously some exceptions here, get very sloppy around that weight and their diet goes to *****. This:
"Basically, energy phase is while training, so sip a P/C drink with 1/2 ratio
Anabolic phase, right after drink with 1/2 ratio PC
Grow phase 4-6 hours after that with more like a 1/1 ratio
then the rest of the day low carb and veggies."

is a pretty good rule to follow. I don't get into the ratios, but my carbs tapper off after a workout. Sometimes pre workout I go with a little caffeine, but you've got to be careful not to have to much because it's shown to decrease insulin sensitivity for a short amount of time. Also note that when you're getting into the higher GI carbs you should steer away from fats, just a trick that will help you avoid unnecessary fat gain.

On a side note, I hope you're using a routine that has worked for you. Because changing both (diet) at the same time and not gaining would leave you to wonder which it was.

I'm using the same routine. I think I'm just gonna go with carbs around workout and follow pretty muc the massive eating guidelines. Dunno if I'll have room for 300g protein when I'm eating more carbs, well, we'll see. what do you mean most of the protein should come from carbs??

I mean assuming that you were already getting around 300g of protein a day, most of your added calories should come from carbs.

But since you're not getting 300g, how many are you getting? Remember you do weigh 220lbs :P

I don't know. This is the first day tracking without the low carb thing, so I guess I'll get maybe 200g.. should I try to get more like 300? I probably need it. I can take down some shakes today if I don't hit it and start eating more meat. I'm all out of chicken, and the cheap chicken is out of stock in the store ATM

I can't just eat 300g protein and the rest carbs, the body needs some fat

I would be shocked if you could eat 300g of protein without getting any fat.

10 cans of tuna.

yeah that's what I figured. Anything I eat that has fat in it has protein too

You'd get around 20g of fat :P

My nutrition process for bulking is quite simple, actually.

I incrementally up my calories above maintenance. Every 2-4 weeks I'll bump up intake based on progress or lack there of.

The composition of that intake consists of 1-1.25 grams of protein per pound of LBM coming primarily from meats, dairy, and a few shakes here and there.

When I'm bulking, I shoot for roughly .5 grams of fat per pound of body weight as a minimum. This is coming primarily from the good stuff, assuring I get adequate essentials in... peanut butter, fish oils, avacados, nuts, olive oil, some flax, etc, etc

Beyond that, it's fair game. My protein intake stays pretty static. I'll eat a ton of carbs to fuel all the increased volume I do while bulking, keeping in mind my caloric limits I've set for myself. And I might bump up fats a bit depending on the day.

I definitely don't fear carbs while bulking though.

I take full advantage of the phase by increasing my workload... and that must be fueled properly.

The 'clean' bulking route never worked well for me. It's hard enough for me to gain weight... so f*%@ worrying if I eat a processed carbohydrate as long as I am getting plenty of the essentials in as well.

I'm not saying I stuff my face with cake. Most of my carb intake comes from whole grains, breads, pastas, rice, fruits and veggies.

Keep in mind that carbs don't make you fat in the face of a caloric deficit... not that you eluded to this. On the flip side, assuming you're getting adequate protein and EFAs and aren't going hog wild on the calories, I think eating a healthy dose of carbs while bulking is a good thing.

In all cases, the best bet is to try to minimize fat gain by eating/bulking smart. Yes, you need to eat over maintenance but given the fact that you can't fast forward muscle growth (naturally), there's no need to eat way over maintenance. You want to find the sweet spot where you're seeing some weight gain, but not gaining too much fat.

And you have to accept the fact that yes, you will gain fat while you bulk.

I'm rambling.... but hopefully you can find something useful out of this. It's what has worked pretty successfully for me.

If you can't get over the carbophobia, you might want to try some cyclical approach where you time your higher carb days around your intense workouts.