what is the process called in which the body makes glycogen? I'd like to google it to see if you can make glycogen from other things than carbs..

oh wait, I think I figured it out, it has to come from carbs in the diet

wouldn't drinking a carb drink while running lengthen the time it takes before glycogen stores are empty and you hit the wall?

Wait, You can get pyruvic acid from protein and pyruvic acid can be turned into glycose 6 phosphate and that can be turned into glycogen through glycogenesis.. so, I guess you can replenish glycogen stores from protein too, not only carbs. But it's probably very inadequate.

http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembo...metabolism.gif

Refueling afterwards isn't just about refueling glycogen stores, it's also about stimulating processes for muscle rebuild. Hence the need for protein. Immediately after exercise, insulin levels are at their peak and anabolic enzymes are in a heightened state, it's that 4:1 ratio I mentioned above that enables the anabolic enzymes to rebuild your muscles. Without the carb, the enzymes never receive the protein and without the protein your muscles won't rebuild as fast.

I thought that insulin levels go down during exercise and stay there after exercise and when glucose is detected in the blood (after we eat) there is an increase in insulin secretion by the pancreas. Hmmmmm....

2. So if you don't eat carbs and the enzymes never receive the protein what other mechanism is there that provides the muscles with..something else, since they don't receive protein according to what you wrote... that makes the muscles grow, but not as fast? Can you expand on that a bit?

The body can convert carbs, fats or even protein into energy...but carbs are most easily, readily and efficiently converted into glucose. It starts right in your mouth with enzymes and is quickly assimilated into the body. Fats, having a bit more then twice the calories per gram as carbs, also can serve as fuel. Fats have a slower glycemic rate, but also serve as a means of energy. Protein is your least practical source of fuel....my understanding is the digestion and assimilation of protein occurs not in the stomach but in the intestines....it's slow and a very poor choice as a fuel...which is exactly why many diets prompt the consumption of protein!

But to address the Karkuestion...carbs are best at replenishing, but fats can do it too. The info I was given is that glycogen storage can ONLY be replenished through consumption of food....you can't use stored fat to replenish...and so eating afterwards is criitical as well as optimal.


As you exercise, your body draws on several sources of stored energy....glycogen in the muscle, blood and even liver....AND about 30-40% from stored fat AND whatever is being digested (and put in the blood) from the stomach. Suck 200 calories of sugar while exercising....and that'll go directly into the exertion and not be stored.

Or something like that. The good news is that it all happens whether we understand it or not. Btw, lots of good reading provided by Buzz!!!

Upon completion of exercise, the body enters a supercompensation period and produces high levels of anabolic hormones (including insulin) to provide maximal protein synthesis.

Basically, you workout and upon completion of said workout, your body is primed for rebuilding. If you consume a combination of carbs and protein your body will be able to rebuild as best it can.

so basically you're saying that when someone stops exercising and he/she doesn't eat anything for an hour, his insulin level is going to be high in his/her bloodstream anyway?

Insulin levels are reduced immediately after working out because your glycogen levels are lower (and your insulin sensitivity is much higher the more fit you are, so your pancreas will produce less insulin).

The only way you're going to have high insulin levels after working out is if you eat high GI foods after your workout.

Unless the experts are all wrong ...

You're talking about glycogen resynthesis and supercompensation. That being said, I really don't know that much about supercompensation. But my guess is, it would have to be self-directed, i.e., you'd have to make it happen by eating a certain percentage of carbs/protein.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not a doctor so I'm clearly just explaining the process as I have interpreted it.

Is it safe to assume that everything else I've said in this thread (where you've not posted once until now) is correct and the only dispute you have with my explanation is whether or not insulin levels are high prior to post workout nutrition?

And if you wouldn't mind, explain the process as it applies to me because that's how I research it. I had a workout the other day which spanned the entire day. I consumed 400 calories per hour in a 4:1 carb protein ratio. Since I never bonked, I’m assuming I didn't burn through the 2000 calories in the glycogen stores and my body moved to the fat stores as a fuel source. Upon completion of the workout, instead of consuming 300 calories for post workout nutrition, I ate lunch which had a large mixture of carbs and protein. What do the experts say?

For related reading, I recommend:

Sports Nutrition for Endurance Athletes, Monique Ryan
Nutrient Timing, Robert Portman
Amino Acids and Proteins for the Athlete, Mauro G. Di Pasquale

I don't get it. Can you be more specific please?

Road my bike for 101 miles for a total of 5 hours and 45 minutes. I immediately changed into my running gear and ran for 1 hour and 17 minutes. It's in my log...

Teamsln Log Query

Look at 9/6/2008 or a similar workout on 8/30/2008

So you drank 2000 kcal during your 5 hour bike session, that's what you're saying

I don't use like liquid nutrition products, although I have in the past, I like solids. I'd say somewhere in the 2000 range. I eat every 30 minutes so in theory I would've put down another 200 +/- at the 5:30 mark.

Yes, that was the only dispute, and i did post a few times in this thread prior to this one. Listen, this is not a personal attack against you, don't get all powered up, you have really good posts in this forum don't get me wrong mate. I just wouldn't want people to believe that during exercise your insulin levels are high because it's not true that's all to it.