Creatine and coffee

SXIPro · Jan. 29/08, 04:00 PM

I realize creatine is supposed to be taken with a juice like grape or apple. Would it still 'work' if mixed in coffee with a teaspoon of sugar? Is table sugar the right type of sugar to use as a carrier? Will the heat of the coffee screw up the creatine in any way?

Just wondering.....

Phate89 · Jan. 29/08, 04:36 PM

No. Creatine will be negated if taken with anything that contains caffeine.

If you drink caffeine, the creatine wont work for you.

Chillen · 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phate89

No. Creatine will be negated if taken with anything that contains caffeine.

If you drink caffeine, the creatine wont work for you.

Support this claim, young man. Dont leave it hang like this

Maybe from something like this:

Bodybuilding.com - John Berardi - Creatine Combinations: What Works?

This one article didnt do it for me.

I would be interested in reading supporting material.

I will add however, that IF you are taking mono which takes adequate amounts of water to be effective (through consumption) and you drink coffee (primarily due to caffiene) you will be pissing the water out as caffiene is a mild diuretic.

Creatine Mono = Water IN
Coffee= Water Out

(Just messen around, not serious)

LOL

Best regards,

Chillen

Phate89 · Jan. 29/08, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chillen

Support this claim, young man. Dont leave it hang like this

Maybe from something like this:

Bodybuilding.com - John Berardi - Creatine Combinations: What Works?

This one article didnt do it for me.

I would be interested in reading supporting material.

I will add however, that IF you are taking mono which takes adequate amounts of water to be effective (through consumption) and you drink coffee (primarily due to caffiene) you will be pissing the water out as caffiene is a mild diuretic.

Creatine Mono = Water IN
Coffee= Water Out

LOL

Best regards,

Chillen

Creatine Newsletter #19: Why are creatine and caffeine a bad combination?
Theres the proof, from the company themselves. Common fact.

Quote:

Caffeine is a commonly used in conjunction with fitness programs. Many weight loss supplements come loaded with caffeine. Additionally, athletes often use caffeine during training for its stimulatory effects. Ironically, chronic caffeine use will also lessen the boost in strength you receive from creatine. One recent study has shown that extended caffeine use COMPLETEY ABOLISHES the physical benefits typically afforded by creatine use (ref. 1). By contrast, a single dose of caffeine immediately before exercise either has no effect (ref. 2), or even enhances the improvement in strength observed with creatine (ref. 3). Therefore, at least as far as creatine is concerned, chronic caffeine consumption appears to be much more counterproductive than an occasional cup of coffee.

Therefore, a cup of coffee now and then wont kill you. But having caffeine daily, will negate the effects of creatine.

Chillen · 05:34 PM

I've read that article before in the past, it isnt enough supporting evidence for me. I appreciate your view point, but I will do some research on this because it intrigues me to learn more about this combination.

Thanks for the link, my friend.

Chillen

Phate89 · Jan. 29/08, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chillen

I've read that article, it isnt enough supporting evidence for me. I appreciate your view point, but I will do some research on this because it intrigues me to learn more about this combination.

Thanks for the link, my friend.

Chillen

The company that creates the product, who surely know their own product, say that caffeine negates creatine. How is that not enough evidence?
Either way, there are dozens upon dozens of other articles that support what I say, and a quick google will prove it.

Chillen · 06:25 PM

The bottom line is I do not base my opinions nor close my mind on a few articles I read (or posted articles I see)--'dependent' on the content of those articles (double blind scientific studies, blah, blah).

I therefore keep my mind open to study more, and then make up my own mind in due time.

I will leave my mind open to absorb all I can and not base it on just these two posted articles on a forum.

I will eventually finalize my opinion and knowledge base, but have common understanding that opinions and scientific research (along the lines we are speaking) can sometimes change, and I will be on the look out for these differences and add them if they are applicable.

This is wise.

I never disagreed with you. I just asked to support your claim.

And, you are correct there are other articles on this topic, of which I plan to read in the near future.

Best regards

Chillen

Phate89 · Jan. 29/08, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chillen

The bottom line is I do not base my opinions nor close my mind on a few articles I read (or posted articles I see)--'dependent' on the content of those articles (double blind scientific studies, blah, blah).

I therefore keep my mind open to study more, and then make up my own mind in due time.

I will leave my mind open to absorb all I can and not base it on just these two posted articles on a forum.

I will eventually finalize my opinion and knowledge base, but have common understanding that opinions and scientific research (along the lines we are speaking) can sometimes change, and I will be on the look out for these differences and add them if they are applicable.

This is wise.

I never disagreed with you. I just asked to support your claim.

And, you are correct there are other articles on this topic, of which I plan to read in the near future.

Best regards

Chillen

If you find one that states the opposite, do please let me know.

I don't understand what your getting though. This isn't a study by some independent source, this is a statement by the MAKERS of the product.

Thats like saying that if you eat a certain chocolate brand, the makers of the chocolate are telling you its laced with some toxin, but you continue to eat it saying " i dont base my opinions on one source "

Chillen · Jan. 29/08, 06:49 PM

You said to let you know. I am.

I am not saying I agree or disagree with the contents of this article, but there are contrary opinions:

Creatine Questions and Answers

Q: I heard that creatine and caffeine can be consumed at the same time. But an article I read claims caffeine inhibits the absorption of creatine into muscle tissue. Which is true?

A: There was a controversial research study published in 1996 in the Journal of Applied Physiology about creatine and caffeine; however, if you study that article closely, you'll find that caffeine had no effect on creatine uptake into muscle. A more recent study by Vanakoski, et al. in 1998 investigated the pharmacokinetics of caffeine and creatine, both alone and in combination. They reported when creatine was used alone or even in combination with caffeine that, "creatine was rapidly and efficiently absorbed, as reflected by plasma concentrations." Because researchers concluded that creatine was efficiently absorbed even when combined with caffeine, it does not appear from the results of this study that caffeine exerts a negative effect on the uptake of creatine into muscle tissue.

Source: Creatine Monohydrate Supplement Review

Phate89 · Jan. 29/08, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Caffeine is a commonly used in conjunction with fitness programs. Many weight loss supplements come loaded with caffeine. Additionally, athletes often use caffeine during training for its stimulatory effects. Ironically, chronic caffeine use will also lessen the boost in strength you receive from creatine. One recent study has shown that extended caffeine use COMPLETEY ABOLISHES the physical benefits typically afforded by creatine use (ref. 1). By contrast, a single dose of caffeine immediately before exercise either has no effect (ref. 2), or even enhances the improvement in strength observed with creatine (ref. 3). Therefore, at least as far as creatine is concerned, chronic caffeine consumption appears to be much more counterproductive than an occasional cup of coffee.

This result initially came as a complete surprise to the scientists conducting the research. They had originally expected caffeine to ENHANCE creatine's benefits since caffeine should create a more permissive environment for creatine transport into muscle. In fact, creatine is transported into skeletal muscle equally well with, or without, caffeine. The most likely hypothesis, therefore, is that caffeine is exerting its inhibitory effect directly on the contractile machinery of muscle.

Certain wrong explanations, however, can be discounted from the start. First, the fact that caffeine is a diuretic has nothing to do with its counterproductive effect. Diuretics increase the amount of fluid that is excreted from the body in the urine. By apparent contrast, ingesting creatine monohydrate powder causes our muscles to retain more fluids thereby reducing urine production. These opposing effects of caffeine and creatine have inspired rumors that caffeine counteracts the benefits of creatine by preventing muscles from retaining fluids.

Making this mental link is erroneous and assumes that water retention by skeletal muscle, otherwise known as muscle volumizing, is the source of creatine's physical benefit. Although increasing the girth of our muscles, muscle volumizing has no proven effect on strength. In other words, size alone isn't the basis for strength, rather augmented energy stores (ATP and PCr) and increased contractile proteins (increased protein synthesis) are the true source of strength. Our muscles get bigger when we train because the amount of proteins they contain increases. Blood flow to our muscle also increases causing them to swell. With reference to training, therefore, size and strength do go hand in hand. On the other hand, inflating our muscles with water without the benefit of these other biochemical processes accomplishes very little, athletically speaking.

A more feasible explanation is that caffeine interferes with the contractile properties of muscle.

Would it surprise you that relaxation and power are one in the same? In truth, strength is the outcome of the coordinated interplay between muscle contraction and relaxation. For example, when performing a biceps curl the triceps must relax at the same time as the biceps contract for the bar to rise. If both muscle groups remain contracted (or relaxed) the bar goes absolutely nowhere! In other words, without the coordinated relaxation of antagonistic muscle groups there is no power. On a mechanistic level it is the presence of calcium that triggers contraction. Calcium must therefore be stingily hidden away into special storage compartments when muscle relaxation is required and only released from these intramuscular storage sites when contraction is desired.

It is thus relevant that one of PCr's primary roles in muscle is to provide the energy to return calcium into these reservoirs. In this manner creatine (PCr) assists in muscle relaxation and enhances our athletic performance. Interestingly, caffeine has the opposite effect of allowing calcium to escape from these intracellular calcium storage sites. Caffeine would thus hamper muscle relaxation. In agreement with these findings a recent study has shown that caffeine interferes with creatine's ability to facilitate muscle relaxation, especially during moments of fatigue (ref. 2). Caffeine might thusly confound the ability of PCr to store away calcium and in doing so nullify part of creatine's benefit.

Take Home

If you're serious about getting the most from creatine, avoid chronic use of caffeine. Scientific studies show that the equivalent of three cups of coffee per day for as little as three days is sufficient to completely negate the benefits typically afforded by creatine (ref. 1). On the other hand, an occasional cup of coffee doesn't seem to render much harm (refs. 2, 3).

The OP was asking if its okay to take creatine with coffee. If he's going to take creatine everyday with coffee, then thats considered "chronic caffeine" use ( see how i bolded "chonic" in the study), if its a once and a while thing, it shouldn't do harm, and might even help a little.

Phate89 · Jan. 29/08, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chillen

You said to let you know. I am.

I am not saying I agree or disagree with the contents of this article, but there are contrary opinions:

Creatine Questions and Answers

Q: I heard that creatine and caffeine can be consumed at the same time. But an article I read claims caffeine inhibits the absorption of creatine into muscle tissue. Which is true?

A: There was a controversial research study published in 1996 in the Journal of Applied Physiology about creatine and caffeine; however, if you study that article closely, you'll find that caffeine had no effect on creatine uptake into muscle. A more recent study by Vanakoski, et al. in 1998 investigated the pharmacokinetics of caffeine and creatine, both alone and in combination. They reported when creatine was used alone or even in combination with caffeine that, "creatine was rapidly and efficiently absorbed, as reflected by plasma concentrations." Because researchers concluded that creatine was efficiently absorbed even when combined with caffeine, it does not appear from the results of this study that caffeine exerts a negative effect on the uptake of creatine into muscle tissue.

Source: Creatine Monohydrate Supplement Review

Scientific References:

1. Hespel P, Op't Eijnde B, Van Leemputte M. (2002) Opposite actions of caffeine and creatine on muscle relaxation time in humans. Journal of Applied Physiology Volume 92, pages 513-518

2. Doherty M, Smith PM, Davison RC, Hughes MG. (2002) Caffeine is ergogenic after supplementation of oral creatine monohydrate. Med Sci Sports Exerc Volume 34, pages 1785-1792

Chillen · 07:16 PM

Bottom line, as this could go on forever, on whether it can or can not interfere. I can make many more posts for and against this combination, as could you.

The OP has to review the data and come to his/her own conclusion, as do the rest of us--when some research are in fact contradictory.

I suggest the OP do some pesonal research and likewise make an informed decision based on knowledge obtained. There seems to be some data for and against this combination--which was my primary purpose of posting the way I did.

JUST DO IT!

SXIPro · Jan. 30/08, 05:36 AM

Thank you both for the replies. Just tough to say whether I fit the description of chronic caffeine user...I have one cup of java in the morning and haven't had a soda or 'energy drink' containing caffeine in years.

I love my morning cup, but I may switch to decaf and then stop all together, as along with the caffeine, the two teaspoons of sugar and the splash of cream are doing me no favors either.

Regards fellas, and thanks for the help

**malkore** · Jan. 30/08, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phate89

I don't understand what your getting though. This isn't a study by some independent source, this is a statement by the MAKERS of the product.

That IS the point. The only valid research is an independent lab doing a double blind placebo study.

You simply cannot trust claims made by the supplement manufacturer, because they make sure every claim they make steers you to buying more product.

step 3: profit!

djflats · May. 06/08, 03:38 AM

So what's the verdict? Can you use caffeine and use creatine? Is it ok to drink 1 or 2 cups of coffee then take some creatine afterwards? Just wondering. I know I've used them both, I just never mixed creatine in coffee.

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