So I've been using whey protein for about 8 weeks to help my workouts. I have seen a very gradual increase in muscle size and need to take my muscle gain to the next level.

What can I mix with my protein shakes to really bulk up and improve my workouts? When using the word "mix" I mean either in the same shake, or taking a supplement with the protein shake or maybe another drink entirely. What supplements can be taken to really start to see some mass building? vitamins that I take are b1, b12, and 1 a day multi vitamin.

Edit: I have been reading up on creatine but it seems to just "fill" your muscles with water so when you stop taking it they shrink. Is there any truth in that statement?

Understand what Creatine's purpose is and the "potential" it may present to you in your weight training.

Don't expect a "miracle worker" but it can prove to be a minor "coworker" in your fitness plans.

There is a biological necessity for water with Creatine Mono (CM) while with Creatine Ethyl Ester (CEE) there is not.

You may experience some water retention if you choose Creatine Mono.

Some who do not study at least the side effects of Creatine Mono, can misinterpret this water retention as fat gain. However, its simply water retention.

If you stop taking Creatine Mono, the water retention will decrease. How much can also depend on your carbohydrate consumption/diet trend.

THIS IS NOT muscle tissue loss. Its just a reduction in tissue swelling from loss of water.

To PREVENT misreading ONES BODY and forbid personal heartache: IMO one should be proactive in education prior to purchase of any supplement they plan on consuming.


I have seen many posts by people new to fitness and training on the forum. Some of these posts were from those that had freshly taken Creatine Mono a week before, and were disheartened that they gained weight when deficit dieting--->or are misinformed in believing the water retention their experiencing is actual muscle growth. Or they complain that they gained fat tissue. While I am not eliminating the possibility they could have gained fat tissue (from a bad diet), it is more than likely being misinterpreted as fat gain when it is actually water retention

The informed person would realize this is temporary water retention and not "really" tissue gain.

With Ethyl Ester, one does not have this problem--or potential confusion.

Thus the importance of education BEFORE taking any supplement.

If I were to choose MONO or CEE, I would choose CEE over MONO.

Mind you I am not saying one shouldnt take Mono, it is as good as Ethyl Ester, IMO.

Just understand their are differences in side effects and understand the potential bodily feed back when taking them. There are no known side effects with CEE--that I am presently aware of.

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There is no shortage of info on Creatine MONO, if one takes the time to read up.

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Various Info on Creatine Mono and CCE, and Creatine Articles:
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Some "relative" info on Mono:

Creatine Information Center: The honest and responsible facts about creatine and nutritional supplementation.


Some "relative" info on Creatine Ethyl Ester (CEE):

Creatine Ethyl Ester

About creatine-ethyl-ester :: Supplements :: Ingredients

Virtues of Creatine Ethyl Ester

An "opinion" on which is better:

Newsletter - Issue 44 - Creatine Monohydrate vs. Creatine Ethyl Ester

Additional Info on Creatine: Does it assist training, etc:

Everything-Creatine - Creatine Articles
(some good info, but seems a bit "commercialized")

Creatine Fact and Fallacies - The Basics on Creatine Supplementation

Interesting Link:

How To Take Creatine for Maximum Effect

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I don't use Creatine myself (and I have never used it), and I am not a very big fan of supplements in general.

I am only interested in the greatest heavy weight champion of all time for muscle growth and/or fat loss:

Manipulation of Calories + Manipulation of Macro Nutrients + Manipulation of Exercise.

Properly and consistently implemented and you wear the fuggen' belt.

This statement is not saying I dont support the use of it (I do) nor saying that Creatine doesn't have some personal fitness benefits (it can).

I just prefer to build muscle/lose fat as natural "as possible", and I have extremely well, just on three supplements, and geesh are these powerful!



Fish Oil, Flax Oil, and Whey Protein Powder. And, I get Creatine naturally from various meats I consume.

Creatine does have some good scientific research behind it.

Creatine in of "itself" doesn't put on lean tissue mass; however, with allowing you to push out an extra rep or two or provide just a tad more intensity (coupled with a good diet), it can "assist" in the 'possibility" of putting on more lean tissue mass than one would have "possibly" without it. But, it will not assist you much if you have problems in the gym and/or have problems within your diet.



Best wishes

Chillen

If you want the short version of Chillen's post:

yes, creatine actually works. you don't have to get any fancier than creatine monohydrate or creatine ethyl ester. just get 100% pure version of either.

don't pre-mix it into a shake...only mix it in when you are ready to consume the shake (creatine breaks down into creatinine which is useless, and kind of harsh on the kidneys in large amounts)

creatine may cause water retention in the muscle...CM is more common to do that than CEE. drink a little extra water each way, to avoid cramping.

creatine helps you get more contractions out of the muscles. very simply put, calcium and creatine are responsible for muscle contractions, and when either is limited, you fatigue sooner = fewer contractions. by upping your creatine levels, you *should* be able to get more work done in your workout.

if your diet is good, your training is good, and your recovery period is good, then creatine can help you make slightly better progress because you get a better workout in.

its a useful piece to the puzzle...not a solution on its own.

another thing to add, at a micro level creatine will help recycle the ATP in your muscles, which is your muscles FIRST and usually most intense source of energy. (USUALLY used in 4-10 rep sets or so, after that a different source of energy is used) Of course this will allow you to work harder and hit your muscles harder when you're pushing up those last reps in each set

wow thanks for all the information, it was really helpful! time to put it all to work and get pumped (^_^)

this is sorta wrong, if you place creatine in water for 120 days, 85% of that will still be creatine and only 15% will be converted to creatinine..

if you place creatine in orange juice for 120 days, 30% of that will still be creatine and 70% will be converted to creatinine.
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this said i mix my protein shakes in bulk only once a week, and are kept in canning jars, i will still get 99-98% of usable creatine
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edit: also going to add water in muscles will increase the effiecentcy of the cells, and ion exchange. this will increase intake making recovery faster, making growth faster, roughly between 2%-5% <usally can be up to around 10% in ppl with bad diets.

hi all. i am new to this so bare with me. i have read up on Creatine, so i now use it, i have been using it for bout 3 weeks, yes i no not long. i only use it when am off work, wich is 4 days, cos i do 4 on 4 off. so on my 4 days off i go to the gym. i am over w8, by bout 3 stone. when i use Creatine then go to do my work out i can feel the differance in me, but when i have finished, the last of my 4 days my arms ache, you know the sayin "no pian no gain", is this normal or am i doin too much. i want to get down to 13-14 stone which is were i wud feel comfertable. i can feel the differance tho in my arms they seem to be tightenin up, can any one give me tips on how to tone my chest as i have bigger tits than some of my women m8s :-( ha ha. also i have chaged my diet, i dont eat much crap i try to eat proper, i have lost 6lb in 2 weeks which is a gr8 achievment for me am chuffed wi that. any help or advise form you good ppl i wud be very thankful to. cheers bri.