I'm trying to find the right things for me.
I'm setting myself a goal to increase my weight and build mass. I have been there before but over the last year and a half i've lost all my mass.
Is a whey-protein going to help me more then a creatine.
Can you take creatine with the whey-protein? If so what would one gain and/or lose by taking both? Thanks

casine protein is great for casual general health type situation. very typical to find a whey/casine mix. this is a very open ended question so ill leave alot out. basicly if you want to gain more mass you need to take in more mass, do your best to keep that intake healthy. creatine will give your cells better efficiency.
#2 you can take bolth together.
#3 they would help, but not sure what other thing your doing.
GL, i haven't posted on here in like years so im a bit rusty

Casine protein is absorbed slowly, giving your body more of a constant supply of protein. Whey protein is absorbed more quickly, giving your body a quick dose. After a workout, whey protein is the way to go. I wouldn't worry too much about casine protein, just make sure you are eating properly.

I think that whey protein will help more than creatine. But, the best thing is a proper diet.

What are some good foods for my diet to help me gain more weight along with the protein supplements? I was in the Army for awhile as a scout so i had people around me to make sure i ate the right foods and right amounts to help me gain weight along with the exercising. Now i'm a bit confused as to which foods, even a couple to start with, will help me the most.

oats anykind anyform, grain breads, chicken, cottage cheese, milk, veggies anykind, fruits anykind, as far as juices just site that actual produce is at the top of the ingeredents list, more natural type things use your commen sence.
lost of post to look at using the search fuction. GL

Welcome back Phal.

Yes, you can take consume Whey Protein and Creatine at the same time.

Both can be peices in your "overall personal pie" to assist the personal goal you desire.

There is a biological necessity for water with Creatine Mono (CM) while with Creatine Ethyl Ester (CEE) there is not.

You may experience some water retention if you choose Creatine Mono. If you stop taking Creatine Mono, the water retention will decrease.

THIS IS NOT muscle tissue loss. Its just a reduction in tissue swelling from loss of water.

To PREVENT misreading ONES BODY and forbid personal heartache: IMO one should be proactive in education prior to purchase of any supplement they plan on consuming.


I have seen many posts by people new to fitness and training on the forum. Some of these posts were from those that had freshly taken Creatine Mono a week before, and were disheartened that they gained weight when deficit dieting--->or are misinformed in believing the water retention their experiencing is actual muscle growth.

The informed person would realize this is temporary water retention and not "really" tissue gain.

With Ethyl Ester, one does not have this problem--or potential confusion.

Thus the importance of education BEFORE taking any supplement.

Mind you I am not saying one shouldnt take Mono, it is as good as Ethyl Ester, IMO.

Just understand their are differences in side effects and understand the potential bodily feed back when taking them. There are no known side effects with CEE--that I am presently aware of.


Also understand what Creatine's purpose is and the "potential" it may present to you in your weight training.

Dont expect a "miracle worker" but it can prove to be a minor "coworker" in your fitness plans.

=========================================================

There is no shortage of info on Creatine MONO, if one takes the time to read up.

CEE (which has a different) chemical arrangment "tends" to elminate some of the side effects of MONO (including water retention), while giving near the same "claimed" benefits.

If I were to choose MONO or CEE, I would choose CEE over MONO.

=======================================================
Various Info on Creatine Mono and CCE, and Creatine Articles:
=======================================================

Some "relative" info on Mono:

Creatine Information Center: The honest and responsible facts about creatine and nutritional supplementation.


Some "relative" info on Creatine Ethyl Ester (CEE):

Creatine Ethyl Ester

About creatine-ethyl-ester :: Supplements :: Ingredients

Virtues of Creatine Ethyl Ester

An "opinion" on which is better:

Newsletter - Issue 44 - Creatine Monohydrate vs. Creatine Ethyl Ester

Additional Info on Creatine: Does it assist training, etc:

Everything-Creatine - Creatine Articles
(some good info, but seems a bit "commercialized")

Creatine Fact and Fallacies - The Basics on Creatine Supplementation

Interesting Link:

How To Take Creatine for Maximum Effect

=========================================================

I dont use Creatine myself, and I am not a very big fan of supplements in general.

This statement is not saying I dont support the use of it (I do) nor saying that Creatine doesnt have some personal fitness benefits (it can).

It does have some good scientific research behind it.

I just prefer to allow my body and diet manifest itself into what I want, and I have done fairly well. Personally, I only use: Whey Protein Powder, flax and fish oils.

Creatine in of "itself" doesnt put on lean tissue mass; however, with allowing you to push out an extra rep or two or provide just a tad more intensity (coupled with a good diet), it can "assist" in the 'possibility" of putting on more lean tissue mass than one would have "possibly" without it.

And, if you plan to take any "other" supplements, bare this classic quote from our respected mod in mind:

Be very leary of marking claims and representations, young man. Especially with over the counter pills of any kind.

Protein:

Protein is one element in a composite GROUP that causes and/or can cause muscle growth---along with proper stimulant, rather than JUST protein.

For example, if one is deficient in calories, macro-nutrients (or a form of vitamin/minerals, or synthesis isn't occurring optimally because of lack of these nutrients, protein ISNT going to help even if its present....if something in the equation is missing (and im not talking just amino acids).

The opposite is true. If there isnt enough protein, and the other nutrients as a whole are present, then the same can happen. See what I mean?

What I am saying is the body needs a proper "balance" of everything, and protein is just one essential element.

Let me give one indirect example:

I can consume high amounts of protein (or what is approximated I need for my wgt), eat right, and lets say ratios are good, BUT I am in deficit caloric diet......am I going to grow large muscles? Answer: NO.

One has to remember, too, that not all protein type foods have all the essential amino acids, therefore if the DIET itself is lacking in this area, this can effect muscle growth as well, even if protein is high.

Protein is NOT the muscle breaker nor muscle maker--in itself--when considering OVERALL circumference of what the body needs, its just a play enumerator.

IF it were, lets remove steroids, and we would have a different (what they call) professional body building competition set. Its difficult growing muscle naturally or to develop more muscle, and what's more important is the overall circumference of nutrients and calories. Lets not forget too, that those that decide to take steroids, tend to eat whole grocery stores of food......and do work HARD.

What you need to focus on is this for mass: (VERY BRIEF SYNOPSIS)

1. Calories

2. Your macro-nutrients: Protein, good fats, and carbs. Including your micro-nutrients such as vitamins and minerals.

3. Consistent and persistant PROGRESSION in the GYM: Weight Training.

Learning the various rep ranges that "traditionally" bring muscle growth and adjusting as your body gives you its feed back.

Make compound exercises your STAPLE exercises. The following is list of Compound (com) and Isolation (Iso) exercises I do recommend:


Squat (com), Dead Lift (com), Flat and incline bench press (com), Military press (com), Lunges (com), French Press (Skull crusher, Iso), Close Grip Bench Press (com), Barbell curl (Iso, I do not share the opinion, that barbell curls are a useless exercise), Bent Over Row/T-Bar Row (Com), and you can also choose: Dips and chins/pull-ups.



I sincerely hope that this posts assists you.

If you have any questions feel free to ask.


Best wishes to you always,


Chillen

Starting a personal Journal:

You may want to consider creating a journal in the journal section of the forum. This way you can ask additional questions, post your diet and training, keep a log of thoughts, etc.

A lot of persons view these logs, and it could assist you, possibly, in allot of ways!


ROCK ON!

I wish you the best in all that you do in life and within fitness,

Chillen

If you havent already, you need to figure out the approximated amount of calories you need per day.

The amount of calories in your diet is THE MOST IMPORTANT when trying to gain GOOD weight.


You can use this link to figure out your calories:


Delaware Consumer Health Information Services (Originally Posted by Wrangell)


You can go to this link and perform it manually:

Nutrition 101

When you work out approximating your calories, have a good idea how many times per week you train.

1. Do you currently work (school)? If so what type of work do you do?

2. Its my opinion, that the multiplier used to approximate calories per day, provides too much of a "blanket effect" and doesnt take into consideration the days that you:

a. Do NOT train (rest day), nor work (or go to school).

Its my opinion, that this day the Approximated MT Line is LOWER because the calorie expenditure is logically lower than the days you would train and work (go to school) the same day.

Its my opinion, a different multiplier should be used for this type of day. You would still go over this approximated MT Line and provide a surplus. It just tailored more to your activity level on this sort of day.

Its my opinion, this could assist you in not gaining any additional unwanted weight, because the multiplier isnt set at the higher margin (or geared toward an activity level that is higher than what you are actually performing).

Therefore, tentatively, I would reccommend having one multiplier for the days you train (the blanket effect you figured), and then another for your complete off days. If having two different MT Lines is too difficult, then go with the one you figured, and adjust it as you obtain bodily feedback.

To recap:

1. Figure out your BASE calories and your approximated MT Line. If you choose you can have one MT line for the days you train and work and one for the days you are "completely" off (or resting from training).

2. Decide on the "amount of surplus" over your approximated MT Line. Generally its about +500c. Watch your "overall" weight per week, and make adjustments if: you are not gaining any weight or if you fat to muscle increase ratio ISNT to your personal taste.

Change your eating habits (below are some suggestion examples)


The 3 Nutrients (Carbs, Good Fats, and Protein) are an essential factor in the diet; however, the Law of Energy Balance within the DIET, is the ultimate KING while the Nutrients can play in some key decisions made within the body.


○ Try eating 5 to 6 smaller meals during the day

Note:

Each day spread your caloric content out throughout the day (keep the body fed, with calories in the 300 to 500c approximated calories each meal), or a like division which mirrors your end caloric surplus limit (meaning MT+500c).

Just divide 5/6 into the amount of approximated calories to determine the approximated calorie amount per meal.

This way you have your entire day and body encircled with nutrition (I assume you already know to eat clean--but, I take the opinion, that eating 100% clean ISNT required--though one should have eating clean as a goal for obvious reasons)

Also include a Pre and Post workout meals in your personal goal plan.

If you cannot space out your meals, dont get all upset over it. Life your life, and eat as often as your daily activities allow.

The main thing is to get those calories in and hit your target surplus each day. There ISNT much difference (if at all) in one gaining weight from 6 meals versus eating 3 large meals per day.

○ Balance your meals out during the day so in one day you have a mix of Protein, Carbohydrate and good Fats

Decide on what ratio of these Macro-nutrients you are going to have. In addition, I reccommend taking in a supplement of Micro-nutrients, like a vitamins and minerals.

○ Drink lots of water during the day and before, during and after exercise

Keep yourself hydrated as much as possible.

○ Simple Carb Examples: (Various fruit) Grapefruit, Watermelon, Cantaloupe, Strawberries, Oranges, Apples, Pineapple, etc

○ Complex Carb Examples: Whole Wheat Pita Bread, Oatmeal, Long Grain Brown Rice, Brown Pasta, Malto-Meal (Plain, whole wheat),etc

○ Good Protein Examples: White or Dark Tuna, Chicken Breast, Lean Turkey, Beef, Bison, and Quality Whey Protein Powder, etc

○ Good Fats Examples: Natural Peanut Butter, Various Nuts, Flax Seed, Fish Oils.

○ Dietary Fiber: Whole Grains (Bran), Some fruits (like Apples), and vegetables, nuts and seeds

Dietary Fiber

=========================================================

Some general good cereals to eat:


1. Steel Cut Oats, Old Fashioned Cut Oats, and Regular Cut Oats (quick cook type), in large containers.

2. Various types of Go Lean Kashi cereals.

3. Fiber-One. (60 calories per 1/2 Cup, and source of fiber)

4. Grape Nuts

GRAPE-NUTS:

Ingredients: WHOLE GRAIN WHEAT FLOUR, WHEAT FLOUR, MALTED BARLEY FLOUR, SALT, DRIED YEAST, SOY LECITHIN. VITAMINS AND MINERALS: REDUCED IRON, NIACINAMIDE, ZINC OXIDE (SOURCE OF ZINC), VITAMIN B6, VITAMIN A PALMITATE, RIBOFLAVIN (VITAMIN B2), THIAMIN MONONITRATE (VITAMIN B1), FOLIC ACID, VITAMIN B12, VITAMIN D.

Its devoid of any "added in" sugars, and from what I have read on Lecithin, this is used in many bread products for various reasons, and isnt a bad ingredient.

5. Shredded Wheat and Shredded Wheat and Bran: (NOT SUGAR TOPPED)

POST SHREDDED WHEAT ORIGINAL SPOON SIZE

Ingredients: WHOLE GRAIN WHEAT

TO PRESERVE THE NATURAL WHEAT FLAVOR, BHT IS ADDED TO THE PACKAGING MATERIAL--If you dont like perservatives, dont select this one
==========================================================
Post Shredded Wheat and Bran

Ingredients: WHOLE GRAIN WHEAT AND WHEAT BRAN.

TO PRESERVE THE NATURAL WHEAT FLAVOR, BHT IS ADDED TO THE PACKAGING MATERIAL. If you dont like perservatives, dont select this one

Both are devoid of any "added in" sugars.


Alpen No Sugar Added Cereal

Serving size: 2/3 cup servings per container:7

calories:200
total fat:3g
sodium:30mg
potassium: 250mg
total carbohydrate:40g
sugars:7g (mostly from raisins)
protein:7g

Ingredients: rolled oats, whole wheat, raisins, pearled barley, roasted hazelnuts, skim milk powder, whey powder, sliced almonds, malt extract. 14 ounce box

Alpen No Sugar Added Cereal

This naturally delicious swiss style cereal has no added sugar or salt and is very low fat. A combination of oats, wheat, barley with raisins and roasted hazelnuts and almonds makes this a healthy alternative for your morning meal.

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I hope that this assists you in some way, young man.

I wish you the best in your personal goals.

ROCK ON!


Best wishes,


Chillen

I agree with Chillen

Whey protein
Flax
Fish oil

The above and a multivitamin are all I take. A balanced diet is key to looking and feeling better.

I'm also trying to fight the battle against hereditary high cholesterol so thats my main reason for the Omega 3 intake. I also plan my Flax/ Fish oil for each day.
i.e. this morning I mixed flax with my protein shake so I will skip the fish pill for lunch but will take one with dinner. Otherwise I've found if I ingest too much Omega 3 I will spend my evening on the can with a copy of War and Peace. Not sure if thats the Omega 3 or just the flax but it seems to be a pattern with me.

Its all good

Most know I dont like supplements (other than Flax and Fish oil, and Whey Powder). But, my goals are different than most, and I understand this completely.

For example, Creatine is from the research I have done on this in the past, a supplement that could "possibly" assist one in their personal goal quest (as I stated previously in this thread), but its one I wish not to take.

It is possible for example, when I was at 154lbs (161 and ripped now) and max bench pressing 345lbs, that taking Creatine could have improved this max and benefited in "possibly" pushing out the one or two last reps that I "possibly" would not have gotten otherwise.

However, I just like the battle between me, the food, the equipment, and hard work, to get what I want. But this is just me.


I prefer to Body Blast myself with a good amount of calories from a well balanced diet arrangement.

I do not bomb myself with the wrong supplements: this only sets aflame my wallet as I call it. And, get ripped by water being tipped! And know that I (the body) is the all time master fat burner that can NEVER be BEAT.


Much success to all!


Chillen

What are some good shoulder exercises i can do at home or somewhere. Something effective.
And also some lower body exercises for my legs and all that. I dont want to be top heavy.

What exercises you perform for the upper and lower body will depend on the type of equipment you have available to use.

What type of equipment do you have available?


Best wishes,


Chillen

Chillen - Several Great Posts!! Good, Practical Info That Anyone Can Put To Use Straight Away. Thanks!

Anyone who couldn't spell "casine" is not worthy of giving advice