Hey guys,

I've been working out on and off for a while. I worked out quite a bit last year and focused on losing weight, but in the process didn't eat enough to gain muscle.

I'm starting to work out again because school is done for the year. I'm about 5'10 and 168 lbs right now. I want to cut down so that my slight love handles are gone and I lose my stomach.

I've never looked into supplements, so I don't really know what to buy. I always see people come into the gym with a powder in their bottles and then they fill it up with water. I'm guessing that's like protien or something?

I don't necessarily want to bulk up really. I'm more interested in a leaner, more slim, cut look than anything. Does anyone have any suggestions of what I should be looking for to attain that sort of a goal? Is there something that will help me slim down while at the same time tone my muscles?

I would only be working out for about another 3 months while school is out. Would I see the affect after 3 months of taking supplements while working out? Or is it not worth it because of the short period?

It must be natural and healthy. I do not want to intake any chemicals or anything.

In summary:
- looking for something to help me tone down (lose weight) and become lean muscular. Sort of like the celebs and what not now a days.
- don't want to bulk up.
- only will be taking it for 3 months
- must be natural/no chemicals

Looking forward to your help!!

-Slim

For something to make you leaner you want "thermogenics" or "fat burners".

My recommendations would be "Tight" or "Xenadrine" if you want energy to go with them (stimulant) or "CLA" and "Pyruvate" if you don't want any extra energy associated with them (non-stimulant).

All of these use natural ingredients and will help you lose weight. The key word here, of course, is help. Supplements exist to help you reach your goals - by themselves, you will notice little or no benefit. Fat burners like those above may help you burn an extra 300 calories a day, so part of a fitness/diet plan they can help A LOT. They will not make up for poor eating habits and a sedentary lifestyle, though.

fat loss -

kelp
cla
omega 3,6,9
flaxseed oil
hemp
glandulars


muscle gain -
whey protein
creatine
zma


others you should invest in -

multi vitamin
calcium
codliver oil

Before you look into ZMA you might want to look into tribulus. ZMA improves your testosterone absorption, but tribulus increases your body's testosterone production. Generally a better first-step into testosterone supplementation.

is it safe?

or are we talking pro-hormones?

These are all perfectly legal and perfectly safe when used as directed.

Quick Q Fil.. I currently take ZMA, and had choosen ZMA over Tribulus because I've heard that it worked better. Anyways, if I was to take them both, that would be okay because they do different things right? Not just double up on the same effect? I can afford some back acne & such

They go perfectly well together. Especially since an overabundance of testosterone combined with a lack of ability to absorb it results in testosterone being converted to estrogen (which results in "bitch tits").

So testosterone will increase your production of testosterone, and ZMA will increase your absorption of testosterone. If you were only to take one, though, I'd take tribulus (or even better: tribestrin, which is just the saponins in the tribulus terrestris herbs) because your body is quite capable, and shouldn't have trouble absorbing the extra testosterone.

I just got back from the GNC and asked the attendant there some questions.

He said the following:
1) Working out is almost useless without using protien. Protien helps repair your muscles. I know it helps, but is it really a must buy and must use? What different kinds are there and what should I look for. The gnc brand was the cheapest so I was thinking about getting that one.

2) Things like tight and thermogens are not that healthy. They raise your body temperature and help you burn calories, but they also burn things like muscle, fat, and even bone. He said to becareful when using them.

3) He said it is a MUST to purchase their MALE multi-vitamins. I currently use Centrum Forte and a 500 mg Vitamin C every day. He said they were generic vitamins and not catered towards someone who is an active MALE who works out. He said to purcahse it for sure.

He basically said to make sure to buy protien (he suggested iso or something protien) and he said I should make sure I buy the protien and use that to get started.

What does everyone think about what he said overall? Keep in mind I want a lean look, not a large bulky look.

Any suggestions or thoughts?

Thanks!

Also..

Everyone seems to say GNC protien and stuff is crap. So what other brands should I buy? Is there any proof that GNC stuff is really bad? Or is it just all opinion? The GNC stuff has good prices, but that could be because of large quantities. I'd rather not order online, any good stores or brands?

Thanks.

protein is vital - protein shakes are not

the guy is trying to boost sales - thats how GNC works - trust me, i know the owner of the company

This is true if you're trying to build muscle - muscles are made of protein. However, most people can get enough protein in their diet without NEEDING to supplement unless you're trying to grow very quickly. I suggest looking into Optimum Nutrition.

The best way to compare proteins is to compare the amount of protein in each serving vs. the total serving size. This is how you compare the amount of "junk" versus actual protein. Example:

GNC 100% Whey Protein : 20g protein / 31g serving size = 64% pure. 36% junk
Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey Protein : 23g protein / 28 g serving size = 84% pure, 16% junk

See that big difference?

I've never heard this before in all my experience and frankly I think it's somewhat ridiculous. Thermogenics increase your body's energy requirements temporarily, but in such a small amount that it would only need to liberate fat to meet those requirements.

If you were to exercise intensely while on thermogenics, it WILL increase your energy expenditure only relatively slightly - and of course, if your body can't liberate energy from fat and carbohydrates quickly enough, it will break down muscle, but this is true of exercise, exclusive of thermogenics.

The thing I find hardest to believe is the bone loss presumption, since the body doesn't break down bones for energy.

Centrum is bad only because it's poorly formulated. It is designed with RDA in mind (Recommended Daily Allowance - the minimum you need to avoid disease) rather than ODI (Optimum Daily Intake - what's recommended for optimal health rather than baseline good health).

As far as needing a MALE multi, these are generally a must for older gentleman, who need to target male-dominant/specific conditions like prostate problems. If you're young, you should just be taking a good, well-balanced multi.

The best all-around multivitamin available today is Source Natural's Life Force multiple. In my opinion, the best formulation on the market.

People who are taking extra protein are going to be doing so to build muscle - for normal tissue repair and health, dietary protein is generally sufficient. Either he wasn't listening to you, or he doesn't know what he's talking about. Since you're trying to get lean, you're going to want to focus on cardio - and this relies primarily on carbohydrates and fat. Why do you need to supplement protein for that?

Looking lean is a fat burning issue, like I said before, and I stand by my recommendation of thermogenics. They have a gradual effect - compounded over days, they can make a significant difference. The main question is do you want something stimulant, or non-stimulant?

I would definitely switch multivitamins away from Centrum, but not necessarily to a MALE multi (though, it's not a bad idea, really - just not as necessary as the guy suggests).

damn good read & info Fil, thanx dude.