Actually I've had experience with Blooming Lotus on a previous forum. She's fairly crazy. BUT you could read her posts and find out for yourself.

Still, its not the way we do things here.

Jesus - your right Lei.

Ok Cynic, Fair play.

No harm, no foul

I've posted this recipe on Dr. John Berardi's site. No one slammed it.

For post workout, provided the workout is hard, and mine always are, that many carbs are not an issue. The body utilizes them well for liver and muscle glycogen replenishment. I do not have this kind of shake at any other time as it would go to fat stores.

From Berardi's Post Workout Nutrition Article:

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...importance.htm

I'm 85.3kg. My workouts are 1 1/2 - 2 hours long, supersets currently at 3x15 w/ 75s rest. I consider that long and hard.

85.3kg * 1.2g/kg = 102g carbs. I'm actually at a deficit. But say I should go middle of the road, 90g of carbs isn't too much higher than 85g.


Since a weight lifting program, again, if done hard enough, will raise the metabolism for up to two days, and all the carbs of my regular feedings come from only vegetables (especially spinach, I love the stuff), I'm losing fat, not putting it on, in the long run.

A PWO shake should be between 2:1 - 4:1 ratio of carbs to protein.

And to reiterate, buy "New Rules of Lifting." The workouts in it are intense and will hand you your azz over and over for as long as you like.

just because a protein shake has simple carbs...doesn't make it a weight gainer.

post workout, you've depleted a lot of muscle glycogen. so post workout nutrition, replenishing glycogen and pushing protein into the muscles for repair is top priority. potatoes, white rice, or the right simple sugars are all perfect for this.

if anyone isn't familiar with the site, read and digest as much of www.johnberardi.com as you can. the guy is a nutrition and fitness expert worth listening to. Incorporate his ideas if you believe they are good. I've chosen to follow him for the time being, because it all makes perfectly logical sense to me.

I know Cynic reads him as well. I also believe that PWO is the only time Cynic has simple, sugar carbs (aside from soem fruit). that's how I do it too.

A side benefit is the insulin spike from dextrose post workout helps drive creatine monohydrate into the muscle as well.

Malkore - I did ask in another thread about dextrose, but cant find the link.

How much would you use in a PWO shake? I don't know the nutritional info on it and I presume if I got some from a brewery it would just be in a bag or box.

does it mix well in milk?
What does it taste like?

Cynic stated, carbs to protein 2:1 to 4:1 depending on your exact goals. Dextrose tastes like sugar to me

Yeah so that tells me that I want 90g of dextrose in my shake.
Thats a hell of a lot - have i got that wrong?

per John Berardi (and all numbers are /per kilogram of lean body mass) -
Strength athletes/weight lifters interested in increasing muscle mass

• Sip 0.8g/kg carbohydrate and 0.4g/kg protein (such as At Large’s Nitrean) dissolved in 1L of water during exercise.

• Immediately after exercise ingest another identical beverage.

• Eat a solid food meal 1 hour later.

Strength athletes/weight lifters interested in preserving muscle mass while dieting

• Sip 0.4g/kg carbohydrate and 0.2g/kg protein dissolved in 0.5L of water during exercise.

• Eat a solid food meal 1 hour after exercise.
------------

So, yes a 2:1 carbs to protein ratio, but it sounds like your PWO shake has too much protein in it right now (or rather, more than really necessary)

I'm 68kg of lean mass, so that's 54g of carbs and 27g of protein for my Berardi style PWO shake.
if I'm leaning out, then its 27g carbs and 14g protein.

you can also do it by mixing the bigger shake, pour half of it into another container, add more water, and then sip that during your training, and finish the rest off (adding creatine if you like) post workout.

Ok, I phoned a brewery and they never heared of anyone wanting to drink it before.

Prolly not, no. but they're a bunch of hop heads

I used to brew beer in my closet. Aside from the malt produced by your grains, and the hops, you also add dextrose (corn sugar) to give the yeast more sugar to convert to alcohol, without having to spend more money for more malt extract...the other option for yeast 'food'.

Dextrose is something like 150% of the sweetness of table sugar. Maltodextrin is half as sweet as table sugar, which is why some people go out of their way to get malto, or mix the two.

But consider the avg. soda has about 40g of sugar per can...that'll give you an ideal of how sweet your PWO shake will be with dextrose.

What is your weight?

If that many carbs give you some concern, then cut a 1/3 off of it.

Make it 30/60 protein/carbs, but you need to get carbs in after the workout. On top of all that Berardi says, you'll be hitting a wall all day long if you don't restore your glycogen levels.

Sry Malkore, I don't see it that way. I've heard and it's my experience, Dex is 80% the sweetness of table sugar, Malt is not sweet at all, but for quantification, I think 1/2 or less is correct.

The only thing I'm drinking during my workout is water because I'm sweating so much. I go through a little less than 1/2 gallon of water on my workouts.

What I do (remember, Berardi is talking about athletes), oatmeal or some low GI carb before the workout, and a simple milk/whey shake.

I drink water during my workout, except in the first week of a new program, then it's water and 2/3 strength surge.

PWO, I have my main shake, but I'm probably going to cut it down some.

I think 60/30 is a decent level. That would be:

2 cps low fat choco milk (54g carb, 16g protein)
6g Maltodextrin
14g Whey protein (I'll have to weigh a scoop so I can find the content:weight ratio).

and that should be good.

I've tried surge and I'm trying to find a way to make less like so much sugar water.

Cynic,

I think I confused sucralose sweetness with dextrose. either way, malto is no where near as sweet as dex, that much we agree upon.