Hi Guys,

Newbie here...

I used to use a cross-trainer at a gym for an hour a day and the machine said I'd used ~1000 calories every session. I didn't lose any weight, but that was because I continued eating fast-food for every meal

Anyhow, fast-forward a year through several serious life crisis and I'm up for having a pop at getting fit again. Gym membership is out of the question due to my being bankrupt but someone was nice enough to lend me their rowing machine for a couple of years.

Now here is my problem. I'm finding it very hard to find any motivation to do this because the most calories I can burn off with the rower in an hour according to the machine is ~300!

According to the machines, the cross-trainer is over three times as effective at burning calories. It makes me feel, what is the point with the rower.

The best answer I can come up with is that, the rower is available and the cross-trainer isn't. This will suffice but I'd rather be enjoying the process than sulking at such an inefficient use of my time. Can someone tell me some positive things about the rower to help? I presume the cross-trainer uses more energy since it uses more individual muscles. These machines no doubt work out energy use based on how fast you are turning something against it's resistance. Is this an effective measurement of fat burning? It seems a bit simplistic to me, like the way for me at least, a calorie isn't just a calorie at all, nor is it as simple as 4/4/9 calories per gram of carb/protein/fat (won't start a religious war by telling you which makes me lose weight faster but I dropped 80 pounds in the past by eating a combination counter-intuitive to the numbers above, so from personal experience it clearly isn't that simple).

Does anyone have any scientific information (citing references) on how the energy is worked out? See the rowing machine feels like more effort too, this is no doubt because it uses less individual muscles but only 1/3rd as efficient at burning energy? Sure doesn't feel like it. I do wonder if it's not possible your body sheds energy in a non-linear fashion for example, like it's less efficient when burning more energy and loses more as heat, which such a simple measurement wouldn't account for at all.

And... HI again!

-- Pieman

It's all a matter of intensity - I have a Concept 2 rower at home and I can burn about 1,000 calories in an hour.

If you can only burn about 300 calories, it may simple be due to the fact you aren't rowing hard enough.

Row harder.

For the gym.. you can get a membership at your local rec center. I have one. A one time payment of 50 dollars got me one year. I only go for the pool, but sometimes I hit the treadmill. So check it out.

As for the calories... I wouldn't follow the calories counter on the machines. Simply because most of them are estimated for an average person of about 150 pounds. The more weight you have, the more calories you burn doing exercises. Not only that, if this is the first time you've used the machine, then your body will have to adjust to doing it... thus burning more calories and building some muscles.

Rowers are good for overall lung support. Sort of like running or swimming. It's a very intense exercise that requires the use of your entire body. If you're not sweating at the end, you're going too easy on it. Increase effort.

rowing, done at equivalent intensity will burn more calories than any other exercise. Fritz Hagerman, a physiologist at Ohio University has done many studies on this.

A. I might be accused of being overly biased, but I've had a chance to study other sports and, as far as energy expenditure goes, you burn more calories in rowing than any other activity. Cross-country skiing comes the closest. At standard submaximal levels of exercise, rowing will burn calories at a rate 10-12% higher than running, and 15-20% higher than cycling.

Why? First, in biking and running, it's lower body only, but in rowing you use upper and lower. If you look at it closely, cycling is so efficient. Your legs are always moving in the same direction. There's no deceleration phase as is built in to rowing. In rowing, you catch, accelerate, decelerate and change direction twice in every stroke. You have to overcome inertia each time. So, the energy cost of rowing is much higher.

The Concept2 Update Fall 2001 - Interview with Dr. Fritz Hagerman

also, you ask about the bodies efficiency and say it might be "losing heat". That is actually exactly what burning a calorie is, so that isn't a concern...

Thanks for all the replies. I can't row any harder. Well I could but I don't think taking my heart rate higher than 170bpm for more than an hour when I've not been training for a while is a good idea. In fact I shouldn't do that from what I've read either but I'm not able to do exercise without sweat running off me in rivers and limbs almost numb from burning or it doesn't feel like I've tried More likely I've got too fat and aren't fit enough

Thanks for the info on what a calorie is too! I'm a bit confused as to now what the mechanical energy of the movement or is this inconsequential compared to the heat energy?

And I'm glad to hear the rower is actually a monster not a pus... feline exercise and the calorie things are a lie. You've given me all the motivation I needed. Thanks guys!

I'm not in America, bankruptcy laws (and gym membership prices) here are different...

BTW, (ott) what do you guys think of this? I've started trying to do some of those too (since I don't have weights). It's really weird, like the one legged squat (cheating and assisting a little with a doorway) doesn't make my leg burn the same way leg squats with weights do but if I push them to the point they stop responding, they're even more wobbly (to walk on) after! Anyway they're some cool skills, I'm looking forward to being able to do all of those...

Thanks again for the helpful replies.

-- Pieman

Regarding rowing, make sure that you are using good rowing technique, in order to get your bigger muscles into action.

You can also run or bicycle outside, or walk, run, or bicycle as part of your commute to work or school, to get additional exercise in.

Thanks tjl, I put a mirror next to me whilst doing the motion to examine my form and noticed due to my fat stomach my knees couldn't compress against my chest properly and bringing them into my stomach causes a very slight backward tilt). I've been compensating for this by leaning forward ever so slightly at the start of the stroke motion to straighten my back straight and leaning back a tiny bit at the end of the motion as I draw the grip bar to just above my abdominals (I read a tiny backward lean at the end of the motion is correct). Is this correct form? I got it from some internet wiki which isn't the most reliable of sources, but it feels OK, is this generally considered correct form?

I'm avoiding running as it causes back and knee pain (doesn't feel like muscular pain and that's the problem) when conducted for more than 5 minutes and that can't be healthy. Perhaps it would be better if I had decent pumps rather than a battered pair of shoes, but I don't so... I'll give it a miss for now (it's on the when I've lost 40lbs list). Used to have a bicycle and rode it for about 300 miles a month, but for better or worse me and cycling are finished (it would remind me of something I don't wish to be reminded of). It's a good tip to others who would read this though, cycling is fun. Any tips on not having my back feel like it's compressing and knees scraping while running are appreciated, other than pumps. People ran before they had pumps so there's got to be an answer. I've got serious cash flow issues for the next year.

Hard to say.

Seems to me, if you can go for 1 hour on an elliptical trainer - burning 1,000 calories in the process at or about 170 bpm - I'd think you should be in pretty fair enough aerobic shape to put in a rather robust ( i.e high calorie burn ) rowing session for 1 hour.

You can do pull up, situps, flutter kicks, push ups, up-downs, etc. Which will help out greatly.

As for running, a good pair of shoes is ideal. You are correct people didn't always have good shoes to run in... but then again, they also didn't have to run on concrete. So good shoes will help. Running style is important also. If you're hurting, check your running style. Check out the running section of this forum for more tips.

Wranglell - What I was saying was 170bpm on a rowing machine (according to the machine) doesn't burn anywhere near as much calories as 170bpm on the elliptical did (according to that machine)...

Dallen - I broke my pull up bar where I've gotten so heavy... lol. Been doing the crunches and push ups, will have to find out what a flutter kick is first (edit: Just found this out, thanks looks like a great exercise). Didn't even think there might be a style for running, now I feel like a fool... Thanks for the info.