Hi All!

So thanks to this wonderful board I joined a gym and I'm in my 3rd week, M-W-F full body workout followed by a protein shake.

Now, my gym instructor tells me I should do cardio - on the same day at the weight training, before hand. But that got me thinking - I read on these boards that the body can go into 'fat burning mode' after 20 mins - and I'm going to the gym to bulk up AND lose fat, not just to lose fat.

So... Cardio before weight before my after-workout shake?
Or is it shake-cardio-weight?

I'm very confused now - any help would be much appreciated!

Hi Cigaro

I'm also doing a FBW 3 days a week including weights and cardio. I split my cardio routine between my weight routine to give my upper body a small rest period from the weights (my fbw has a lot of upper body exercise's in a present)
Therefore I'm doing my cardio warmup followed by the first half hour of cardio, I then do the first half of my weight routine. After this I do half hour of cardio followed by second half of weights then the third half hour of cardio, if that makes sense. Around 45 minutes after this I'm back at home and starving so I take the protein shake then. I believe this is the time the body will accept more protein. I also have a protein shake for mid morning snack.

I'm new to all of this myself so I open to advice myself.

Eat a little bit of carbs before a heavy workout. Weights first while you're at maximum strength. This will also help hype up your metabolism. Then cardio. Drink lots of water. Then have a protein shake. Having protein 45 minutes or less after your workout helps build and maintain muscle mass.

Hi all this is my first post so please tell me if i'm in the wrong place doing something wrong etc... LOL. This is along the same sort of lines as the first message with the cardio / weight training / protein shake intake question, i was told that i should not do cardio training pre or post weight training but to do it on alternate days. Before i was told this i was doing about 20 - 30 mins cardio pre workout including warm up, can anyone advise i'm a little confused now, lol. Would it be best to do cardio on alternate days to weight training / pre or post workout on the same days as weights?

It doesn't matter. What ever you prefer. There is nothing run with some cardio after weight training as long as it isn't HIIT.

Thanks for the reply and i'll probably sound a bit stupid asking but would HIIT be ok to do on the alternate days?? If i train on Mon Wed Fri Sat and do HIIT on Tue and Thu would that be too much do you think?

Not at all.

In fact, you can do it on Mon Wed Fri if you want.

I would go with BSL who says cardio and weights on different days. Cardio and weights are two different animals and so the demands on the body are different.

Id say do them on different days aswell, just so you can get max effort out for both. Nothing wrong with doing them on the same day though.

FLAWLESS ADVICE!!!! This is exactly what I strive to say, just that it takes me 5 novel-length paragraphs to do it!

&

Let me say this again....you can talk to different trainers & nutritionist, read different books; opinions on this will vary, you just can't lay-down a concrete answer and everyone is different. That said....here's my understanding, quite subject to many "experts" dissection:

Most my trainers have me do about 5-10 minuutes of light/med cardio BEFORE I workout....this is intended to get the body warmed-up, blood circulating and get a nice sweat going. You don't want to jump right into some hardcore heavy weights abruptly, so this "pre-cardio" is more of a warm-up cardio...there's no intention of burning fat or doing much more then waking-up the body for what's to come. Same reason you let your sports car warm-up before you romp on it.

When you come into the gym, your body should be all fueled-up...glycogen reserves replenished from earlier meals, no lactic acid built-up in the muscles, you're ready to rock some weights. Think of it as the beginning of a camping trip: everything packed & in order, all your food & drinks ready for consumption....topped-off & prime to go!

Never do weights on an emtpy stomach. Weight-training requires heavy-duty energy...you'll be exerting yourself to the point of muscle failure/fatigue. Your pre-meal should include some carbs, some protein and even some fats...a well-balanced meal. I like some oatmeal with a bit of raisins and a few almonds and Derwyddon has me chewing on some tuna for protein as well. I like to eat about an hour before so there's some digestion & nutrient integration. I do about 250-450 calories. Ain't nothing wrong with a Zonebar, or some other 120-240 calorie energy bar.

Do your warm-up...5-10 minutes on the treadmil, elliptical of whatever gets your sweat on and wakes-up the body.

Work weights for no more then 60-80 minutes, your burning-up lots of fuel in mostly an anaerobic state. That doesn't mean you're not burning fat, theory holds that after some 20-minutes your blood-sugar will start dropping and the body will start firing-up reserves, drawing energy from a combination of glycogen, fat and other sources. Understand, you're still burning fat during weights...but energy derived from fat comes at a slow rate. Here are your fuel sources:

ATP/Creatine-Phosphate = dynamite, very explosive energy, uber-fast burning

Glycogen = gasoline, fast burning

Fat = wood, slow-burning

After some 60-80 minutes of heavy-duty weight work, you should feel pretty spent, depleted and worn. You still have more glycogen and energy resources, but at this point your body may start breaking-down and denaturing proteins as part of the fuel to keep going; this is catabolism. Desipte popular rumor, it's not an on-off switch, the body is constantly moving in & out of this state; anabolism and catabolism. The thing is, after an hour of hard work, you can start really moving into more catabolism....and this must be why many MANY trainers say not to work out with weights for more then an hour.

After working out with weights, it IS best to slam down a solid protein shake and replenish some of the fuel you've used. This window of opporutnity varies based on the source, but 30-45 minutes tends to be the trend. If you're trying to bulk, hit the protein shake immediately and enjoy a nice meal within the hour.

BUT, if you're trying to lose some weight, then this is a perfect time to take advantage of your body being partially depleted of it's high-potency energy sources. At this point your body is in drawing on it's energy reserves to sustain blood-sugar levels...and since the explosive stuff is pretty tapped, your body is all too eager to use a large majority of FAT to fuel a low/mid-exertion cardio routine. Hop on the elliptical, treadmill or whatever you like and do some cardio.

If you came into the gym fresh and hopped on the elliptical, you'd have to burn through some of that blood-sugar before your body started tapping into the fat to fuel your cardio...but after weight-training, you're body is already burning fat and will continue to burn fat as you continue on doing cardio: this is the reason cardio is suggested after weights. If you did cardio first, you'd burn a lot of the explosive fuel you'd want for weights. So that's the theory behind weights first, cardio after.

A few other thoughts. As I do weights, I often sip some of my protein shake...not enough so I can feel my stomach working to digest it, just enough to keep a slow "protein drip" going. If I intend to do more then 30 minutes of cardio after weights, I pop some BCAA (Branch Chain Amino Acids)...clinical research has shown a reduction in catabolism when taken.

My cardio days are generally 3.25 hours...a combination of spinning, treadmill and swimming, THIS kind of cardio should not be done on the same days as weights, but on any day (even on days you do weights) you can get in an hour and not worry about it.

As usual I'm absolutely blown away by the quality of the advice I find here!
Thank you so much everyone!

I understand how after a decent weight session your fuel reserves are depleted and a follow up cardio session will burn fat, but does the protein shake after the weight session affect the bodies ability to burn fat ? Does cardio session immediately after the weight session affect the ability for muscles to recover ?

1. No, if calories particular to the person are correct. (keeping things equal)

2. No, if calories and recovery period are optimal particular to the person.


Best wishes,


Chillen

You are making it too difficult too early!

You started going to the gym 3 weeks back and you are already worrying about the minutae. Dont get too caught up with these minor stuff (atleast this early). Just try to be consistent, work on your form, and clean up your diet.

Maybe its good that you are thinking.

Yes, there's a lot of focus on the minutae....but that's good. Nothing wrong with an OCD approach; it's all about focus, intensity and the drive. If you're gonna do something, do it right.....do your homework, take the most effective & smart route and get all into it.

Let your desire be the fire to inspire & aspire you to perspire. - Chillen



GREAT QUESTION.....one I've often pondered.

From what I gather, the moment you eat something and the digestion of that nutrients results in the infusion of glucose.....your blood sugar will rise and the oxidation of fat will be reduced.

Fact is, energy is energy and when you eat something that energy will not be stored so long as your body is in a good exertion mode; it'll be burned! So it stands to reason that bringing-in some 300 calories from a protein shake WOULD redirect the body from burning that amount from your storage.

Understand, your body is getting it's energy from a combination of sources...fat, glycogen, etc......but yeah; a portion of that energy is coming from fat and if you import some energy by eating it'll be used in addition to what your body has in storage. Hope that makes sense and it's prime for debate.

So here's the conflict: you SHOULD replace & replenish your carbs & take-in some protein immediately after weight-training...but in doing so you'll be taking-in calories that will offset some fat you could burn when you continue to do cardio after your weights.

If you REALLY wanna gain muscle, then hit the shake and avoid cardio for fear of catabolism.

If you wanna catch some prime fat-burn zone, then do some cardio after weights, but try to keep it to a low to mid intensity, something your body can fuel using fat and do it for about 20-45 minutes. Still concerned? Pop a few BCAA's to avoid catabolism, and sip about 1/3 your protein shake. The protein will take a while to digest and it'll inhibit the digestion of the carbs a bit too...long enough so that most your energy will come from stored fat.

There is no "selector-switch" that will allow you to burn only pure fat, but after weight-training and given a continued low intensity demand, fat is the bodies primo fuel and you'll be in high-ratio to burn it.

It's a lot of info and Lord knows it varies with people, circumstances and all sorts of other stuff....but I say run with it, fuel the obsession and find what works for you. Hope that helps or at least confuses ya!