No problem, and sorry to hijack your thread snorkles!

Interesting - you never had more that 200 calories a day from carbs.

Presumably, the idea from this Ketogentic diet is to have your fatty acids converted to ketones for energy since you'd eventually have no carb based energy available ( after slashing carbs ).

Given that you have virtually no carb based energy left ( after sustained 200 carb calories a day), and you can't create energy anaerobically with ketones, and you can't burn fat anaerobically either and since weight training is primarily an anaerobic activity ........what was fueling your weight training since weight training is primarily an anaerobic exercise ?

As for cardio ....I assume it HAD to be aerobic ( i.e not HIIT ) for the same reasons. ?

The fact is your question (within my goal scheme) is completely irrelevent. Im not taking this thread to a debate. The results were above outstanding as the pics showed June through September 2007 of this year. I was referring to myself and MY NEEDS for MY GOALS. If you remember I did ALOT of cardio--and I know WHY I did so.

I dont want to get into any energy systems debate, blah, blah, blah. A simple two line sentence took care of this with my doc.

Dont waste your time Wrangell.

EDIT: I have a pretty good idea of the source of fuel--dependent upon what I was doing. My Doc and I discussed this very thing. I didnt go into this completely blind. I knew what I was doing and some consequences as a result.

Anyway, Snorkles, this is what I did, and it worked for me through advice of my own expert I trust and respect and it fit within what "my personal" goals were. And, nothing else matters--period. Make your own choice with the advice you receive. I was just relating what it took for me and it fit within the integrity of your questions--since you asked for it. It wasnt very detailed, but I think you get the idea of what I did.

EDIT: Snorkles, I want to clarify that I only used the ketogentic diet once, and this was when I reached about 10%.

The fat loss was getting more difficult even with increased exercise and diet changes as mmy body fat dropped. So, we discussed some possiblities and I decided at the time to give this diet a shot.

I didnt know at the time IF it would work, I hadnt tried it before. But I had guidance and cast iron will. You dont really know until you try, and I therefore did just that. Practically all things (not quite, but close) have nay sayers. Some have made dissenting opinions on what I did, but it doesnt matter. It doesnt matter, because of the "results" I received. And, these speak volumes over their remarks.

Since I had this experience, I wll try again. Since I bulked for a time. Seems rather simple and common sense to me.

Im glad I did and I am glad I trusted her point of view that was in line with knowing who I am. For the bulk of the fat loss it was just deficit dieting and training.

My Lord, one can find something wrong with almost any diet/training regime, if you get caught in the mess it can cause confusion. Im not going to debate its general source of fuel--I already know. But, if you want to disuss this wrangell you are more than welcome as this is your thread.

I see a debate like this going on for many posts in this thread IF I decided to discuss this with him. Im not going to do this to your thread. I suppose there are a few persons that dont like the ketogentic diet, this may be true. But there has been persons who have used it with success, and I one of them, no matter the skeptics on the forum or whether they like this type of diet or not. This is treuly irrelevent to one that is WORKS on.


A Ketogenic Diet for Rapid Fat Loss?–Distinct’s Ultimate Health & Conditioning

Best wishes to you Snorkles,



Chillen

Huh ? What's that all about ?

I'm simply interested in reconciling the impact / rationale of low carb diets with training demands on energy systems and as it pertians to fat loss ( in fact..... I asked Derwyddon about this very ' low carb ' topic just yesterday ) - and your lengthy and detailed explanation of your Ketogentic diet caught my eye.

What better way for me to get insight on low carb diets than to ask someone - lke yourself - who actually was on one and endorses it as beiing effective ?

But, if you think providing some more info on your Ketogentic diet as it pertains to energy systems is " irrelevant " - fair enough.

( Snorkles is off cutting and on to bulking anyway )

Have a great day.

What can I say ....you're right again.

so basically you are saying that you eat "normal" amounts of protein and fat but limited carb intake to 50g maximum and increased cardio? was this the solution to cut?
so by saying this do you have timetables of what you usually eat?

thanks

It's impossible to consume around 2,400 calories a day - of which only 200 calories a day is derived from carbs ( i.e 50 grams ) - and still eat what I would consider " normal " amounts of fat and protein per day at the same time.

If you held your fat intake to the max levels suggested by the AHA - i.e 30% - that's 720 calories from fat. That means the remaining 1,480 calories ( or 370 grams ) would have to come from protein ( or booze ! ) ...a whopping 370 grams of protein.

Give Chillen is a mere 150 lbs or so, consuming almost 2.5 grams of protein per pound of his bodyweight is likely to be considered anything BUT " normal " IMO.

what are you trying to say wrangell? so you are saying that chillen made an "abnormal" diet to get cut? I cant get the point. thanks mate see i am asking a lot since i dont want to bulk and get fat, i want to build mass than know how to properly cut.

hey man one small question, is it true that the best thing to do is bulk for 6-8 weeks cut for 2 weeks and re start , with the aim of gaining 2-3lbs of muscle everytime?? or is it wise to bulk for lets say march and start cutting in april-may?

Wrangell was trying to say that if you cut your carbs to 5% you would have to up your fat intake to compensate (not a normal diet), while still keeping protein around 1-1.5 grams per pound of body weight...(although I doubt Wrangell would recommend going higher than 1 gram/pound)

Anyway, yes Chillen definitely made an abnormal diet to get cut. It's called a keto diet. It is not normal to eat only 50 grams of carbs. In fact it's hard as hell because nearly every food has some carbs in it.

so that's the only way to cut? using this Keto? and why not do it if he acheived results? yes its hard, but no goals are achieved without any sacrifice no?

In the ' General - Personal Trainers ' section of the forum, there is an on-going discussion underway in Derwyddon's thread of " KETOSIS AND ANAEROBIC ACTIVITY, CARB CYCLING " that may shed light on some of your questions.

http://training.fitness.com/personal...ing-29481.html

No, this is definitely not the only way to cut man. People just use it as a way to get fat off really quickly, or when they have a low body fat percentage already but are finding it hard to take off the last few pounds with a regular diet.