agreed poop

I was just about to point to cardio 101 and then realised there is no cardio 101. Who would like to volunteer for the cardio 101?

Trainers and nutritionist alike continue to preach (essentially) that fat can't be burnt fast enough to support intense muscle contractions (weight lifting). We all know that energy comes from a combination/mixture of several sources....but the general understanding is:

You do your weights first because you're fresh, have all your energy ready to go and are "loaded"

You don't workout for much more then an hour because after an hour you've burned through the primo fuel and then can start into catabolism. Time and again I've been told not to do weights for more then an hour at a time just because of this.

Weight-lifting is high-demand and largely anaerobic. You and I both know at all times the body is burning a combination of all things....but the energy derived from fat-oxidation is considered a small or insignificant component when it comes to doing weights. Weights are so intense that such activity is generally anaerobic...and so you utitlize glycogen and ATP/Creatine-Phosphate for the most part. I guess is starts to fade after an hour because I've always been told by excellent sources not to go much more then an hour.

Cardio is generally low/mid-intensity. So after a strong hour of lifting & moving heavy weights....the body is tapping into it's reserves and this is the time to lay-off the high-demand weights (to avoid catabolism) and take advantage of the low blood-sugar condition: this is where you're body is prime to turn mostly to fat to sustain low/mid energy demand....and so cardio is the call.

Weights first, then cardio.

I'm surprised you're picking this apart.....?

Why not do your cardio in the morning on an empty stomach therefore setting up your body to burn cals the rest of the day, then later in the day after glycogen levels are back up, then pump it out...

What do you all think of this? Please don't take this as me invading your topic, but I think it relates.

It seems like some people say not to do HIIT and weight training on the same day.

I am trying to lose weight while maintaining muscle mass.

On MWF I do weight training for about 30 minutes and then do HIIT on the eliptical for 25 (not including a 5 minutes warm up and 5 minute cool down).

I generally do 2 sessions of cardio/anaerobic exercise daily (1 is required the other is either running the track with intervals or just a brisk run), and 5 days a week I ALSO lift.

I do my morning routine, about an hour, before breakfast. It can me mild to very very heavy, but either way I know it jacks my metabolism up for good bit afterwards.

At around 4 PM or so I hit the gym again, or hit the track. If I go to the track, I'm there for an hour doing cardio and bodyweight exercises. If I go to the gym, I do 20 minutes of high-intensity cardio on a machine and follow it up with 4-5 sets of my muscle group, which varies by day of course. I break up the lifting on Wednesday when I hit the track, Saturday when I hit the trail and, after the 3 mile run, go after the heavy bag for about 30-45 minutes and then pick a lifting exercise to do a burnout session on.

Sunday I rest.

So far, in 2 months, I've put on 10 pounds of muscle and lost an inch around my stomach.

My body is getting used to the grueling routine and the results seem to be coming faster now than they did before.

End result? It doesn't rightly matter when you do what, just do something, and work up a damn good sweat doing it.

(In case you're wondering, yes, my job does demand top physical condition)

The "Empty-stomach" approach has gone the way of disco....

The whole idea is that after fasting all night your blood-sugar is low...so any exertion or physical demand will be met with the body burning fat (seeing as you have no food in your stomach). So you figure you'll go straight into fat-burning mode, eh? Certainly sounds good, but....er, no.

Much like your body's temperature....your body regulates the blood-sugar level within a band. If it goes too high, the pancreas releases insulin to facilitate the excessive glucose (blood sugar) being stored in fat.....and if it goes too low, the body spins-up some glucose from several sources: glycogen in the liver, glycogen in the muscle, but at rest, the majority of energy is sourced from FAT. On a percentage basis, your body is burning the most fat during sleep!

Anyways, if you do cardio on an empty stomach you are more likely to sooner be diggin into the fat, but don't kid yourself, you still have lots of glycogen and other stuff on tap & ready. The downside of doing cardio on an empty stomach is that you'll lack the energy to perform a more intense workout. Ever hear the saying "Fat burns in a carbohydrate flame"? I monitor my cardio workouts and I can honestly say that by eating a reasonable breakfast and snacking a bit through the workout, I've seen more overall calories burned then had I not eaten.

Really....it still comes down to calories in vs. calories out. There is no magic timing sequence or way to trick your body into revving-up the metabolism.

Trick question.....

Let's examine HIIT for a better understanding, but let's start ground up:

When you weight-lift, you generally move heavy weights and do sets/reps until failure....it's intense, anaerobic and generally places a strain on the muscle which in turn builds more muscle. Please re-read that. Your building muscle...this process stimulates your metabolism for up to 2-3 days, the affects continue after the work is done.

Cardio...burns calories as you perform it, BUT the calorie-burning generally stops after you do it. The benefits are there & then (barring respiratory, circulatory and the hundreds of other benefits ).

Okay....here's something I've never seen anyone write on Fitness-Chat....but it's this simple: HIIT is nothing more then incorporating the same weight-training approach to cardio....you go mild/med for a duration, and then you go full-bore hog-wild for an interval. What you're basically doing is placing an intense anaerobic demand on your muslces such that you derive the similar benefits as you get from weight-training: EPOC (do a search for EPOC, I'm not going to cover it)....but this is why HIIT is beneficial. It's merely a hybrid fusion of weight-lifting & cardio where you're pushing your body past thresholds to make gains.

SO....would you do massive chest-presses and then later that day do the same chest-presses??? No, of course not...we all know we're supposed to let a day pass before hitting the same area. Right?

So let me ask you this....would it make sense (in the same manner) for me to do massive chest-presses and really burn my muscles....and then the same day go swimming and do HIIT laps in the pool? Nope!

So here's the thing: if you wanna do heavy weights for your upper body in the morning, that's fine. Have your protein shake afterwards and eat some food. Later in the day you can do some running, biking or lower-body HIIT....but don't do HIIT work on your chest, cause you burned it earlier in the morning.

So yes, you can do weights and HIIT in the same day, but not in the same area. Don't conflict the areas, simple as that.

I spin/run/spin/swim on Wed, Fri and often Sunday. I do weights Tues, Thurs and Saturday. Monday is a busy day in the office so I keep it to some light elliptical and run lean on the diet. But the thing is, I keep the weights and cardio (HIIT cardio even) on alternating days.

If you don't exceed a 20% calorie deficit you shouldn't lose muscle mass....and you ensure not losing muscle if you place even a reasonable "toll" on your muscles; just exercise and use them enough so that your body essentially realizes you're using them and they can't be shed in an effort to alleviate the reduce energy cost on your body. If you don't use your muscles much and you're on a severe cut, your body will cut-loose lean muscle: each pound of muscle requires 20-50 calories per day to be on your body even if not used! (we used to think 80-100 calories per day, but recent research has proven it's much less).

Despite erroneous belief, you can totally gain muscle AND lose fat at the same time.

If you're looking to burn fat, I'd suggest you get your nutrition in order first and foremost, get adequate sleep, and then worry about the finer points of working out.

I get what you are saying. Thanks for going into the details. That's exactly what I was looking for!

I think I'm fine. When I do weights, it's just my chest/back and arms for 20-30 minutes... and since my HIIT is from the eliptical, that would be lower body, then I'm good since they aren't in the same area. Right? When I go to the gym, it makes it a lot easier to do HIIT soon after I do the weights.


I am a 235 lb 6'3" 19 year old male, which i think equates to around 3400 calories. I generally shoot for 2000-2200 calories. I eat healthy and get all my nutrients, 30-35g fiber and around 100g of protein. But by eating this way, that's like a 40% deficit. Hmmmm? Even with that deficit though, I've still been able to lose weight while lifting more in some areas.

Yep, I think you're good too!


Also sounds good. For quite some time the body-fat% calipers showed me dropping & dropping fat, yet the scale remained steady or even went up a bit. You know the old saying (and fact): muscle weighs more then fat!

Don't be so hard on yourself, progress is slow and it's not something you can immediately see in the mirror (like a hair-cut or change of outfit).

If you really counted your calories, you might be surprised to find how quickly and surprisingly they add-up. Shoot for 2,200 but don't be surprised if things add-up to 2,700....calories happen!

Keep up the good work!

Here is a physiological answer to your question:

Should I do cardio training on weight lifting or non-lifting days?

Can someone tell me whether it is mandatory to do weights at all if your primary aim is to lose burn fat? Im not asking weather weights will give a more complete effect as in calorie burning. All I want to know is whether or not I will be able to burn fat without doing any weights. Thanks a lot for any help! I am doing HIIT btw

You will be able to burn fat, again it's a calories in vs a calories out thing. Noone has to weight lift to lose weight. However the general conclusion is to lose weight the fastest and most effectively is a combination of weight lifting, cardio, and a healthy diet.

Losing weight i.e. both fat and muscle or losing fat? A rigorous cardio regimen without resistance training will not give your body reason to hold on to its muscle and you will get the marathon runners look.

.....and bullies will kick sand in your face when you go to the beach.

Understand, when you put your body in a calorie deficit it responds in many ways. One thing it'll do is try to reduce it's energy dependence and this can partially take the form of cutting/reducing your lean-muscle mass. Have you seen an Atkins dieter? Gaunt face, shrunken chest, skinny arms.....not good. Each pound of muscle, even sitting unused, requires 20-50 calories per day just to be on your body: your body might shed this taxing caloric expense UNLESS you send the signal to your body that you NEED this muscle and are USING this muscle.....this message is no better sent then by putting a load or using these muscles....and so we exercise and put a weight-bearing load on our muscles in order to preserve them.

Also, adding muscle is like putting a few more cylindes on an engine: it'll burn more gas to run them.....so you can eat a bit more when you have muscle OR your calorie deficit will be more effective on account of a higher caloric demand.

So let me get right to the point.....for myself and many others, weight-training is not fun, it hurts a bit toward the end of the reps and it's not enjoyable: shut-up & do it.

Muscle is your friend and beyond that, the benefits of weight-training are almost amazing....it'll raise your metabolism, burn calories, continue burning calories for an extended period, helps maintain bone density and can stimulate as much as a 400-600% increase in HGH production, whereas the best and most expensive HGH supplements can only get your about 100%.

Proper diet
Cardio
Weight-training
Good supplements
Sleep & rest
Not marrying into a family where the mother-in-law or sister are bitches

....these are good things. Are we green?