Typically 10 X 1, 8 X 1, 6 X 1 and 4-5 X 1... sometimes I finish off with 1-3 really heavy reps.

Have you thought about maybe a 2,4,6,8 scheme? This is assuming that you like pyramid reps.

Way more accessory lifts. More ab work at the end, more unilateral work, more back work.

Rule #1.) Your lower back isn't strong enough.
Rule #2.) Your lower back still isn't strong enough

Do all the stuff you hate to do. If you hate front squats enough to where you only back squat, front squat.

Hate RDL's? Do them more.

Rotate the exercises you do. For instance, don't DL for 10 weeks straight, do a handful of weeks with rack pulls, then with snatch grip deads, etc...

I second what Lei just said. In my experience (not much but enough to know a thing or two ) a lack of progress with the lower body is most commonly caused by an inbalance. My advice would be to up the unilateral work which definately means keeping the split squats, maybe adding step ups and single leg deadlifts.

And Lei's other point about the back is a great one too, I'll have to +rep for that, a weakness in the lower back might be preventing gains in the legs. Good Mornings and back extensions could help this

Thanks CCR.

Yes, after you exhaust your "newb" gains, you will be unable to just squat and deadlift your way to bigger numbers. This is because, like CCR said, you have imbalances that are holding you back. This is why you need supplemental and accessory lifts to help you bring those weak points up to the surface where they can be dealt with. It's always good to just keep training your lower back, though, just because it's never strong enough.

RWD, dude, you just said you are making ****ty gains on your legs doing 11-15 sets, but you are making huge gains with 3 sets on your other body parts. You answered your own question.

Here's a few suggestions:
1) Lower the number of sets/exercises for your legs. Try to keep the number of sets between 6-8 using 1 or 2 exercises total (i.e. Squats and Stiff legged dead lifts)
(paired with)
2) Using a more moderate rep range like 6-8/8-10...or if you really like pyramid sets (10, 8, 6, 4)

3) Since you work legs twice a week, make one a high weight day while the other is a med/high rep day

or finally...
4) Use different movements between the 2 days you work legs...
-day 1- squats/stiff legged deads...etc
-day 2- front squats/split squats/lunges...etc

Wow you are eating a hell of a lot, 4500 is my max.. 2 days/wk is plenty, I wouldn't go any higher than that. Just warm up, and go balls to the wall for 2 sets and believe me you'll improve. With 5k calories, you could do any leg exercises and grow, just give it some time.. Gains are made with consistency.

Maybe it's cause he's taller than 4'

Ok, let me dissect this post...

More accessory lifts... I already do lat pull downs, shrugs, rowing, bent over rows, etc.

What you mean by do more accessory lifts is basically strengthen your back right?

I have never heard the term "unilateral work" can you explain what you mean by that?

And I don't know what RDL's, rack pulls, or snatch grip deadlifts are... I will see if I can find that out.

I never said I do 3 sets for my other body parts... did I? If I did say that I didn't mean too.

I see no reason why lowering the number of sets would give me better progress...

I like your suggestion of switching up the reps and weights...

Also I really like your last suggestion about having two different leg day routines... I'll have to come up with something.

The only reason I would have more than one leg routine is if I found too many exercises or two different ways of training that I couldn't put into the same day. IMO find a routine that works, then worry about developing another.

Actually, I messed up. Accessory lifts are different than supplemental lifts. I thought they were the same thing, they are not. THe point is though, you need to train the same muscle groups many different ways, with many different exercises.

The rules are more about low back work. Good mornings, reverse hyperextensions, back extensions, Glute-ham raises, cable pull-throughs, anything else where you're pulling off the ground...




I mean strengthen the muscle group using a variety of different exercises. For instance, a lot of the same muscles that are involved in a back squat are involved in a front squat. But they are not all emphasized the same way. This is good, especially if your weakness is in your quads. In a deadlift, the back and hams need to work a great deal. So to train those muscles, you do good mornings. Different leverages, different stablization, different just about everything.

Single leg work. Bulgarian squats, step ups, lunges, single leg ham curls, pistols, etc.

They are all basically variations of the deadlift movement. RDL's emphasize the hamstrings. Rack pulls are deadlifts with the bar raise off the ground, so they have a decreased ROM. They help you practice locking out and are less taxing than regular deads. Snatch grip pulls are the opposite of a rack pull. You spread your grip wider and increase your ROM. This is used to help your strength off the floor. It also kills your grip.

elitefts.com

Read the articles. If you continue on this path, you're going to have to go through a looot of real work. Cause that's what this is-- just real, hard, work. Doin the **** you HATE to do. And you better believe that it sucks

oiy, your a really smart dude. I can't comprehend most of what your saying

reading your post makes me want to split up my lower body day, though. It usually takes me around 1.5 hours with warm ups and stretches included, and to get more back work in there would take a long ass time.

We don't have a free squat bar in the gym, so I am not sure how many of the exercises you listed I could do (I honestly don't know what most are, I tried to look most up), the glute ham raises I use to do back in middle school and high school, but my college gym doesn't have the necessary equipment.

Speaking of back work, when I do my rowing I can never feel my back working... why would this be?

But anyway, to summarize your post, to get stronger legs I have to get a stronger LOWER back, and to do this I need to work it in many different ways. right?

Why just lower back?

Thanks !

EDIT: Oh, and by the way, are there any particularly excellent articles on the site you listed? There's so many I don't know where to start!

Try this pyramid my father makes me do every now and then:

10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.

I'm sore for days man.

It's good you don't, since you're a beginner. I would be more worried if you knew all this but were still stuck in the same situation, so don't sweat it.

If you don't have anything better to do, why? Try writing out your split, we can probably help you streamline it if it's taking too long.

There are two components to a GHR. Hip flexion, and knee flexion. Doing a hip flexion exercise like good mornings or deadlifts will take care of one component. Leg curls will take care of the other.

It could be a lot of things. Wrong angle is the first that comes to mind. What kind of rows? Cable, bent over, dumbell? Now that I think of it, actually, I hardly ever feel my back "working" in terms of burning...but pulling is pulling. If you're pulling, you're using your back. Just keep doing it.

Well, the thing about the lower back is, hardly anyone has one that's very strong. So right there it's already set up as an imbalance to cause weakness. And the thing with a lot of lower back exercises like good mornings is, they also blast the hamstrings. So stronger back=>stronger hams=>stronger legs.

It's always good to continue strengthening your back, no matter what your weakness will be 10 years down the road. So questions like "How do I get stronger legs?" Are kind of too general. The answer will be to work them harder/better. This kind of questioning is just going to go in circles.

Instead, a good way to gauge your leg strength is to measure your squat and deadlift. If you're putting up more weight, your legs are stronger. So think in terms of, "what do I need to do to bring up my squat and deadlift?" The answer will be "eliminate your weakness". The thing is knowing to recognize your weakness.


Just keep reading. If it totally goes over your head, try another one .

Personally I didn't "get" what I was reading at Elite until reading a bunch here and on T-nation.com, and watching EliteFTS's videos on Youtube. But that isn't to say you shouldn't read it. Just keep reading, if you have any questions on what you're reading just shoot us some questions.