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  My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help! Post #31 (permalink)  
Old Feb. 15/08, 09:47 PM
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realworksuks
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I would like to do good mornings... we don't have a free squat rack though, how should I do them? dumbells? Use one of those bent bicep curl bars?

My split is this:

Upper day
Bench press (usually 4-5 sets with warm up)
incline dumbell bench press (2 sets at most)
pec fly's (2 sets at most)
shoulder work (side raises, front raises, and a variation of the two, all in succession but only doing 15 times total for each arm, so 5,5,5, etc.)
Military press (3 sets usually)
Shrugs (4 sets)
chin ups (2 sets)
bicep curls on the bench (2 sets)
skull crushers (triceps, 2 sets)
tricep raises? (2 sets)
wrist curls (3 sets)

phew, the upper body day is my easy day.

Lower body day:
Squat (4 sets)
Deadlift (4 sets)
split squats (3 sets)
cable rows (4 sets)
lat pull downs or pullups or a combo (3 sets)
bent over rows (3 sets)
leg press (3-4 sets)
calf raises on the smith machine (3 sets)
hamstring curls (3 sets)
anterior deltoid row machine (2-3 sets... I realized today that this shouldn't go here really, but it works the lats and back too... so I dunno)
rowing machine (horizontal bar, 2-3 sets)
Weighted Crunches (4-5 sets)

Sometimes I do one set on the inner/outer thigh machine.. and I am going to add in the leg raises for more quad work, and I want to get the good mornings in there.

So I am not sure, I think it'd be cool to split my lower body day into two days, do just legs one day and then do back and lats the next...

thoughts?

Thanks so much for everything!

Last edited by realworksuks; Feb. 16/08 at 02:20 PM.
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  My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help! Post #32 (permalink)  
Old Feb. 16/08, 01:58 AM
LeiYunFat's Avatar
LeiYunFat
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Wow that's a lot of volume. How's your recovery?

If you don't have a squat rack, how do you squat?
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  My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help! Post #33 (permalink)  
Old Feb. 16/08, 04:45 AM
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evolution
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Don't just throw GMs and some other quad movement in there haphazardly. It looks to me like you've got just a bunch of exercises thrown in there. Have you thought about alternating your squat and deadlift as your main lower body movements? Work up to 5 RM or 3RM and then use the Bulgarian squats as a unilateral movement and then finish it up with a posterior chain movement like pull throughs?

Go look at the Defranco has his set up.

You could easily do this-
Work up to a 3RM on your front squat/deadlift/back squat/zercher over 6-8 sets
Bulgarian squat/1 leg leg press/bb step up 3-4X12-16 steps
RDL/back ext/rev hyper/pull throughs 3-5X8-15
some abs

I think your upper day looks weird

Why don't you have 1 paired pressing and pulling movement (5-6 sets)
1 paired assistant pressing and pulling movement (3 sets)
Run a circuit with 1 movement front anterior delts, rear delts, biceps, and triceps at 2 setsX12-20 reps

On your
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  My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help! Post #34 (permalink)  
Old Feb. 16/08, 09:03 AM
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realworksuks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeiYunFat View Post
Wow that's a lot of volume. How's your recovery?

If you don't have a squat rack, how do you squat?
Recovery's fine... It's no big deal for me to do this, just takes longer than I would like.

I squat on the smith machine.
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  My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help! Post #35 (permalink)  
Old Feb. 16/08, 09:06 AM
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realworksuks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolution View Post
Don't just throw GMs and some other quad movement in there haphazardly. It looks to me like you've got just a bunch of exercises thrown in there. Have you thought about alternating your squat and deadlift as your main lower body movements? Work up to 5 RM or 3RM and then use the Bulgarian squats as a unilateral movement and then finish it up with a posterior chain movement like pull throughs?

Go look at the Defranco has his set up.

You could easily do this-
Work up to a 3RM on your front squat/deadlift/back squat/zercher over 6-8 sets
Bulgarian squat/1 leg leg press/bb step up 3-4X12-16 steps
RDL/back ext/rev hyper/pull throughs 3-5X8-15
some abs

I think your upper day looks weird

Why don't you have 1 paired pressing and pulling movement (5-6 sets)
1 paired assistant pressing and pulling movement (3 sets)
Run a circuit with 1 movement front anterior delts, rear delts, biceps, and triceps at 2 setsX12-20 reps

On your
I see.. good info.

I am guessing by paired pressing and pulling movement you mean for a particular muscle group? Or do you just mean in general?

How could I get a push/pull in there? I am pressing on everthing except biceps and wrist curls.. maybe some of the front raises or something would be considered pulling, I don't know.

I do run circuits with my biceps and triceps, I alternate them for four sets.
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  My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help! Post #36 (permalink)  
Old Feb. 16/08, 10:07 AM
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Karky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realworksuks View Post
Recovery's fine... It's no big deal for me to do this, just takes longer than I would like.

I squat on the smith machine.
there's your problem right there.
You simply can't squat correctly on the smith machine.
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  My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help! Post #37 (permalink)  
Old Feb. 16/08, 12:38 PM
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realworksuks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karky View Post
there's your problem right there.
You simply can't squat correctly on the smith machine.
It's funny you would mention that because I made that assumption right before I went to the gym today.

I threw out the squat and took a variety of everyone's suggestions and changed my routine... here is what I did, in this order.

Leg extensions and leg curls circuit 3 sets of 20 (higher volume, slower reps)

Cable pull throughs 3 sets of 10, I actually did this inbetween my leg extensions and curls, so it was part of the circuit... more on this later.

Deadlifts 3 sets of 10

Leg Press 3 sets of 20-25 (slow reps, taking about 45-60 seconds per set)

Seated cable rows, I alternated this with leg press, 4 sets of 10

Lat Pull down/split squat/oblique machine/weighted crunches circuit 3 sets of ten for the first 2, 4 on the oblique machine, and 5 on the crunches.

Also I mixed in two more sets of the cable pullthroughs because I really loved that lift and had never done it before.

It took me 1.5 hours still but this was a really good workout! I felt my quads a lot more during the extensions than I did when I use to squat... the cable crossovers felt great! And the deadlifts were awesome.. everything felt really good. I threw out a few of the lifts I was doing before... took out the bent over rows and squats... I forgot to do calf raises but I meant too.

I was wiped out after this workout, though, my heart rate was high throughout the whole workout...

so I took some suggestions from everybody and changed my routine... so now I think we should look at it again cuz it probably still sucks... hah.
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  My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help! Post #38 (permalink)  
Old Feb. 17/08, 02:46 PM
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realworksuks
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bump................
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  My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help! Post #39 (permalink)  
Old Feb. 17/08, 03:03 PM
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So what are you planning now?

I think on your old routine you didn't have enough volume for the legs. Sure, it's a lot of exercises, but if you take out the lat stuff and rear delt stuff, that's only like 4 or 5 exercises for your legs.

I think your upper day is set up poorly. You might see better gains from taking all those lat and rear delt exercises on day 2 and putting them with day 1. So it would look more like this

bench
chin
shoulder press
row
shoulder raise
then your arm/pec fly circut
shrugs
ab work

Personally that's a lot of exercises and I wouldn't do so many. But that's just me, you said your recovery is good so there you go.

Your newer lower day looked okay. But your exercise order was off. And you need more unilateral work.
Quote:
3.)Leg extensions and leg curls circuit 3 sets of 20 (higher volume, slower reps)

4.)Cable pull throughs 3 sets of 10, I actually did this inbetween my leg extensions and curls, so it was part of the circuit... more on this later.

1.) Deadlifts 3 sets of 10

2.)Leg Press 3 sets of 20-25 (slow reps, taking about 45-60 seconds per set)

Seated cable rows, I alternated this with leg press, 4 sets of 10

5.)Lat Pull down/split squat/oblique machine/weighted crunches circuit 3 sets of ten for the first 2, 4 on the oblique machine, and 5 on the crunches.
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  My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help! Post #40 (permalink)  
Old Feb. 17/08, 03:09 PM
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Hoss
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Let's slow down for a bit, you've been on a ketogenic diet since you started your legs and are complaining about making slow progress? And you just started eating 5kkcal? Give it more time before you change everything up and use weapons that don't need to be utilized yet.
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  My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help! Post #41 (permalink)  
Old Feb. 17/08, 03:33 PM
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realworksuks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mreik View Post
Let's slow down for a bit, you've been on a ketogenic diet since you started your legs and are complaining about making slow progress? And you just started eating 5kkcal? Give it more time before you change everything up and use weapons that don't need to be utilized yet.
That's the thing, though, I haven't made any significant gains for 1.5 years, it's always been a struggle to squat 135 ten times.

I tried to lift heavy the other day and could only do 185 twice and it felt like my eyes were going to explode out of their sockets. I can rep 185 ten times on the bench with ease, though... so it sucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeiYunFat View Post
So what are you planning now?

I think on your old routine you didn't have enough volume for the legs. Sure, it's a lot of exercises, but if you take out the lat stuff and rear delt stuff, that's only like 4 or 5 exercises for your legs.

I think your upper day is set up poorly. You might see better gains from taking all those lat and rear delt exercises on day 2 and putting them with day 1. So it would look more like this

bench
chin
shoulder press
row
shoulder raise
then your arm/pec fly circut
shrugs
ab work

Personally that's a lot of exercises and I wouldn't do so many. But that's just me, you said your recovery is good so there you go.

Your newer lower day looked okay. But your exercise order was off. And you need more unilateral work.
That looks a lot better to me... my upper day was too easy I think, this will make my leg days less dreadful.

What else do you think I should do for unilateral work besides split squats? And do you think I balanced my hams/quads well enough?
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  My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help! Post #42 (permalink)  
Old Feb. 17/08, 04:03 PM
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tonymcclellan
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I would look into Wave Loading. It always works wonders for me.
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  My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help! Post #43 (permalink)  
Old Feb. 19/08, 03:18 PM
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LeiYunFat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realworksuks View Post
What else do you think I should do for unilateral work besides split squats? And do you think I balanced my hams/quads well enough?
There are lots of unilateral things you can do.

Step-ups
pistol squats
lunges

The lunge has a ton of variations.
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  My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help! Post #44 (permalink)  
Old Feb. 22/08, 02:00 PM
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realworksuks
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what is the reason for needing lots of unilateral work? Is it just to make sure one leg doesn't get stronger than the other?
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  My legs are weak and don't get stronger.. help! Post #45 (permalink)  
Old Feb. 22/08, 08:44 PM
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Yep. There are many other reasons, but I recommend them mostly because you don't have a squat rack.
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