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  1. #1
    v800c is offline In Orientation
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    Replenish Glycogen Stores

    So, I read there are different reasons for choosing to do cardio before or after resistance training having to do with having your glycogen stores available to you for the training most important to you depending on your goals (breathe!) - but, I was wondering - since cardio before resistance train is better for getting lean, but glycogen depletion will make it difficult to lift effectively and therefore size gains might be less - why couldn't you just replenish your glycogen stores during/after the cardio so your lifts can be more effective - thus benefits of both worlds? Or doesn't it work that way.

    I do an upper/lower resistasnce training one night and a core training the next (alternating for 6 days) - I decided to do HIIT cardio right before the Core and no cardio on the upper/lower days so I can get full benefits on the upper/lower which is more important to me than the core - the core routine is good but less intense than the upper/lower so I may be able to get an effective workout even after HIIT. Does this sound like good thinking?

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  3. #2
    Typhon is offline Chicken Plucker
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    Who told you that cardio before resistance training is better for getting lean?
    Is there no way of moving them to different days?

    As for glycogen replenishment, it isn't an instant thing, it will take many hours for glycogen recovery and a day or two for the muscles to repair.

    If getting lean is your goal then the answer is primarily in your diet, cardio will help burn a few extra calories but by building muscle you raise your metabolic rate on a more permanent basis.

  4. #3
    v800c is offline In Orientation
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    [QUOTE=Typhon;363980]Who told you that cardio before resistance training is better for getting lean?
    Is there no way of moving them to different days?
    QUOTE]

    Here is the article I came across when googling the question: Cardio before or after resistance training (now, I had to laugh, I was so into reading the article that I didn't even notice the other content on the site until about the third time reading the article....."Not that there's anything wrong with that."

    realjock.com/article/1128/

    Thanks for the info - It makes sense that glycogen replenishment takes time.

    Also, I definately have a strict, clean diet to maximize my fitness goals.

  5. #4
    Karky is offline Former member of VulgarityGang
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    The article says EPOC was more raised in cardio + resistance than resistance + cardio.. that sounds odd to me. Maybe when you do resistance first you won't have as much glycogen left to do the hard intensity cardio you need for a high EPOC, but then again, resistance training doesn't really use up all that much of your glycogen. I'm puzzled.

  6. #5
    Typhon is offline Chicken Plucker
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    As a general rule I don't get training advice from gay porn sites

    I didn't look at the article because I'm at work and 'realjock.com' sounds a bit too dodgy to have down on my viewing history

  7. #6
    Karky is offline Former member of VulgarityGang
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    lol! it is a site for gay health and fitness I didn't notice
    not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just a bit funny.

  8. #7
    Chillen is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by v800c View Post
    So, I read there are different reasons for choosing to do cardio before or after resistance training having to do with having your glycogen stores available to you for the training most important to you depending on your goals (breathe!) - but, I was wondering - since cardio before resistance train is better for getting lean, but glycogen depletion will make it difficult to lift effectively and therefore size gains might be less - why couldn't you just replenish your glycogen stores during/after the cardio so your lifts can be more effective - thus benefits of both worlds? Or doesn't it work that way.

    I do an upper/lower resistasnce training one night and a core training the next (alternating for 6 days) - I decided to do HIIT cardio right before the Core and no cardio on the upper/lower days so I can get full benefits on the upper/lower which is more important to me than the core - the core routine is good but less intense than the upper/lower so I may be able to get an effective workout even after HIIT. Does this sound like good thinking?
    I am not going to default to saying you can not do cardio-like activity before a weight training session, because you simply---can. For example, you certainly could do it 4 to 5 hours before your training session, and have a meal or two in-between. And, so on with the variables.

    I am going to ignore some of the glucose depletion comments (for now, anyway), because I want to know a few things:

    1. What are your personal goals. What is the "overall" purpose of your weight training and cardio-like activities?

    A. Lose tissue?
    B. Gain tissue?
    C. Endurance goals, wants?

    How you organize your program will depend on your goal perimeters, physical disposition, time, lifestyle, etc, etc.

    2. How do you have your diet organized?

    A. Calories
    B. Macro Nutrients.

    Answer these.


    Best wishes,

    Chillen
    Last edited by Chillen; Mar. 19/09 at 11:49 AM.

  9. #8
    malkore is offline Deceptimod
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    To answer the glycogen question, you just need to add simple carbs to your PWO shake. a 2:1 carbs to protein ratio will work, but even as low as .5:1 ratio would work.

    Its even beneficial to start sipping a shake like this after 20 mins of resistance training.

    Dr. John Berardi, Ph.D. will have more detailed information about the above recipe. I did over simplify it.

  10. #9
    v800c is offline In Orientation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chillen View Post
    I am not going to default to saying you can not do cardio-like activity before a weight training session, because you simply---can. For example, you certainly could do it 4 to 5 hours before your training session, and have a meal or two in-between. And, so on with the variables.

    I am going to ignore some of the glucose depletion comments (for now, anyway), because I want to know a few things:

    1. What are your personal goals. What is the "overall" purpose of your weight training and cardio-like activities?

    A. Lose tissue?
    B. Gain tissue?
    C. Endurance goals, wants?

    How you organize your program will depend on your goal perimeters, physical disposition, time, lifestyle, etc, etc.

    2. How do you have your diet organized?

    A. Calories
    B. Macro Nutrients.

    Answer these.


    Best wishes,

    Chillen
    My GOALS are this: I currently weigh 190 at 5'11 and I recently lost 37 lbs in a period of the last 5 months - I also gained a really nice amount of lean muscle head to toe - feels great. I am still about 15 pounds or so overweight (still a "little" flabby) and would like to focus on lowering my bodyfat - how much you ask? Don't know - just so that I am at the point of being nicely lean and defined. I think I want to be at 175-180 with low bodyfat....I'll know it when I see it.

    DIET: I am on a calorie deficit of 500 a day - my daily intake ranges from 2100 to 1970 depending on my workout schedule that day (upper-lower; or core/HIIT; or rest). My macros are 40C/20F/40P and I eat things like tuna, salmon, chicken breast, whole wheat bread, multi-grain cheerios, V8, broccoli, banana, almonds and a Balance protien bar spread throught 6 meals in the day.

    WORKOUT SCHEDULE:
    FRI/SUN/TUE is upper and lower resistance about 90 minutes after dinner - Sometimes I do 1 set each of 5 upper/4 lower/5 upper/4 lower/ 5 upper exercises and sometimes I do 2-3 sets of only the first 5U/4L/5U/4L. I follow with a PWO protien/creatine shake with 8oz of V8 Fusion for insulin spike and then 1/2 cup cottage cheese b/4 bed. SAT/MON/WED I do a core routine of about 10 exercises followed by HIIT (based on the article in question, I may do HIIT before the core). Again, I follow this with the PWO shake but do not have the cotage cheese. THURSDAY: REST.

    Can't weight to lose the body fat and focus on gaining even more lean muscle.

    Hopes this helps - Waiting for your reply...

    Todd

  11. #10
    buzz is offline Verge of Overtraining
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    the effects doing weights first or cardio first on epoc,is going to be minimal either way, just do it the way you enjoy it.

  12. #11
    blackbeard is offline Third Set
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    Quote Originally Posted by buzz View Post
    the effects doing weights first or cardio first on epoc,is going to be minimal either way, just do it the way you enjoy it.
    That sounds negligent for someone trying to preserve muscle and burn the fat. You should lift heavy and how is one going to lift heavy, if one exhausts oneself doing cardio first? I've seen "trainers" telling people to use light weights but do high reps.

  13. #12
    buzz is offline Verge of Overtraining
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeard View Post
    That sounds negligent for someone trying to preserve muscle and burn the fat. You should lift heavy and how is one going to lift heavy, if one exhausts oneself doing cardio first? I've seen "trainers" telling people to use light weights but do high reps.
    i wasnt refering to muscle mass or weight loss,i was refering to the effects either would have on EPOC which i say again is minimal.

  14. #13
    Karky is offline Former member of VulgarityGang
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    Quote Originally Posted by buzz View Post
    i wasnt refering to muscle mass or weight loss,i was refering to the effects either would have on EPOC which i say again is minimal.
    yeah, that's what I think too. But the dude in that article thinks it's sufficient to just say the name of the journal and the year the article was published in.. so we can't go in and check it out now, can we? I tried searching the journal for EPOC, etc limiting the search to the year it was supposed to have been published, but I found nothing.

  15. #14
    buzz is offline Verge of Overtraining
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karky View Post
    yeah, that's what I think too. But the dude in that article thinks it's sufficient to just say the name of the journal and the year the article was published in.. so we can't go in and check it out now, can we? I tried searching the journal for EPOC, etc limiting the search to the year it was supposed to have been published, but I found nothing.
    lyle macdonald has alot of stuff on epoc "studies etc" on his board.

  16. #15
    blackbeard is offline Third Set
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    Quote Originally Posted by v800c View Post
    My GOALS are this: I currently weigh 190 at 5'11 and I recently lost 37 lbs in a period of the last 5 months - I also gained a really nice amount of lean muscle head to toe - feels great. I am still about 15 pounds or so overweight (still a "little" flabby) and would like to focus on lowering my bodyfat - how much you ask? Don't know - just so that I am at the point of being nicely lean and defined. I think I want to be at 175-180 with low bodyfat....I'll know it when I see it.

    DIET: I am on a calorie deficit of 500 a day - my daily intake ranges from 2100 to 1970 depending on my workout schedule that day (upper-lower; or core/HIIT; or rest). My macros are 40C/20F/40P and I eat things like tuna, salmon, chicken breast, whole wheat bread, multi-grain cheerios, V8, broccoli, banana, almonds and a Balance protien bar spread throught 6 meals in the day.

    WORKOUT SCHEDULE:
    FRI/SUN/TUE is upper and lower resistance about 90 minutes after dinner - Sometimes I do 1 set each of 5 upper/4 lower/5 upper/4 lower/ 5 upper exercises and sometimes I do 2-3 sets of only the first 5U/4L/5U/4L. I follow with a PWO protien/creatine shake with 8oz of V8 Fusion for insulin spike and then 1/2 cup cottage cheese b/4 bed. SAT/MON/WED I do a core routine of about 10 exercises followed by HIIT (based on the article in question, I may do HIIT before the core). Again, I follow this with the PWO shake but do not have the cotage cheese. THURSDAY: REST.

    Can't weight to lose the body fat and focus on gaining even more lean muscle.

    Hopes this helps - Waiting for your reply...

    Todd
    If i were you I would do compounds like squats, deads, rows, overhead presses, bench plus dips, pullups and then on a separate day cardio. i.e

    Mon , Wed , Fri :- FBW look at the 5x5 for example in the routines sticky.
    Tue, Thu :- Cardio
    Sat, Sun : OFF

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