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  1. #1
    cgrame is offline First Set
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    reverse crunches for lower back hurtt.

    today i did lower back for the first time. it was instantly sore after i finished 3 sets (that has never happened to any other muscle on my body) so now i am concerned that maybe i did it wrong or that i hurt myself a little.

    another weird thing is that i had the same weird feeling a month ago when i tried deadlifts for the first time. (i just assumed i did them wrong and never tried them again) Am I messing something up or can it just be that my lower back is weak?

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  3. #2
    Chillen is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgrame View Post
    today i did lower back for the first time. it was instantly sore after i finished 3 sets (that has never happened to any other muscle on my body) so now i am concerned that maybe i did it wrong or that i hurt myself a little.
    What exercise (s) were you doing for your lower back?

    another weird thing is that i had the same weird feeling a month ago when i tried deadlifts for the first time. (i just assumed i did them wrong and never tried them again) Am I messing something up or can it just be that my lower back is weak?
    Getting lower back pain when performing the dead lift isn't that uncommon--especially if the exercise is performed improperly, too many sets, too heavy of weight, etc, and some genetic physical abnormalities.

    What type of dead lift are you doing, and how was this performed? How many sets, and what is the frequency/volume of the other portion of your training? How often per week, and how much rest is given between your workouts?

    What is your goal/purpose of training? And, lastly what is your nutrition/diet look like?


    Best regards,

    Chillen

  4. #3
    g8r80 is offline Request Title Change from Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgrame View Post
    today i did lower back for the first time. it was instantly sore after i finished 3 sets (that has never happened to any other muscle on my body) so now i am concerned that maybe i did it wrong or that i hurt myself a little.

    another weird thing is that i had the same weird feeling a month ago when i tried deadlifts for the first time. (i just assumed i did them wrong and never tried them again) Am I messing something up or can it just be that my lower back is weak?
    Sounds like a case of DOMS, except DOMS develops after about 24 hours, not instantly. You probably went a little hard and your muscles were overwhelmed. Do you have any known back problems? Have you had a physical?

  5. #4
    World B is offline First Set
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    Back Pain

    These previous answers are right on the money from some well respected helpful people. My two cents would refer to the weakness you spoke of. There is a gym of power lifters not far from my home that I read about recently and one of the prerequisites to become a member is a month or more of serious core training with one of their trainers. I hear so many trainers and lifters say that you work your abs enough with the other major exercises. I don't agree totally. Yes you work some of the abs but the core routines hit all the front, back, hip flexors, obliques etc equally for great body stability and strength. I guarantee that you will discover your weak areas the first time you do some serious planks, renegade rows, leg lifts, twists etc. Check out some of the routines on the sight for examples. Once your stronger in the cores do low weight on the other exercises until your form is perfect. Body weight exercises will help while your mastering the weight of the other exercises. Listen to your body. Rest and eat learn the difference between muscle soreness and injury.

  6. #5
    cgrame is offline First Set
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chillen View Post
    What exercise (s) were you doing for your lower back?



    Getting lower back pain when performing the dead lift isn't that uncommon--especially if the exercise is performed improperly, too many sets, too heavy of weight, etc, and some genetic physical abnormalities.

    What type of dead lift are you doing, and how was this performed? How many sets, and what is the frequency/volume of the other portion of your training? How often per week, and how much rest is given between your workouts?

    What is your goal/purpose of training? And, lastly what is your nutrition/diet look like?


    Best regards,

    Chillen
    Well I was doing the reverse crunches.



    that's the machine i did it on except the one at my gym is more industrial. i started off holding a 25lb weight in my hands while doing it. i think that might have been way too heavy lol.

    my goal is to

    1. get my upper body (chest, arms, shoulders) to "look good"
    2. i don't want to be some idiot with big muscles but not actually be in good shape so i also work out legs and core a lot.
    3. i want to get rid of my belly and love handles.




    that's me right now (FAT) obviously 225 lbs 5'9"
    i been at the gym for 2 1/2 months now. i took those pics like 2 weeks ago. i was pretty bloated. i had eaten a whole bag of sunflower seeds with salt so i think i was retaining water. but reguardless i'm still no where near where i want to be. i quit smoking 3 months ago which helped me workout better but makes losing weight more difficult.

    my routine:

    it's not exact because i'm not working right now and can pretty much go w/e i want. (sometimes i'm really bored early on in the day and go early or sometimes i will go later at 10 or 11pm) but it's kinda like this

    M: Chest, 30 min cardio
    T: Cardio
    W: Arms 30 min cardio
    TH : Legs no cardio
    F: Back 30 min cardio
    SA : OFF
    S: Shoulders

    my diet:

    there really isn't any. i cut out fast food, ice cream, chips. i try to eat 6 times a day. as far as actually food tho, i still eat sandwiches, mozzarella cheese (i'm italian so....lol you know i mean) my family just eats a certain way. I'd say I'm definitely more conscious about how i eat now then i was before my training but i could be doing significantly better.

    AND lastly. I only did deadlifts one time last month. 45 bar, 2 (25) weights, 3 sets. I may have been using my lower back to lift more than my legs. maybe that's why it hurt so much

  7. #6
    Chillen is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgrame View Post
    Well I was doing the reverse crunches.

    (Image removed)

    that's the machine i did it on except the one at my gym is more industrial. i started off holding a 25lb weight in my hands while doing it. i think that might have been way too heavy lol.
    Understood.

    And, I would agree that beginning with weighted R-crunches was the incorrect way to begin. The first order of business, is getting the execution (form) of the exercise down, by reading some quality material, and viewing quality videos on it, and then going into the gym and practicing the execution of the movement the correct way. During the practice you will learn where you are at.

    Incorrect form on Crunches can cause some lower back pain. Therefore, if you have incorrect form and too much weight added, this is a recipe for lower back pain.

    I am not going to address this to hard, because, I do not feel direct-core work should be your "primary" focus at your current physical disposition. At least in my opinion.

    I can address this more thoroughly later if you wish.

    my goal is to

    1. get my upper body (chest, arms, shoulders) to "look good"
    This is an attainable goal for you.

    2. i don't want to be some idiot with big muscles but not actually be in good shape so i also work out legs and core a lot.
    I am going to be honest, young man. You will more than likely not be a person with big muscles in a matter of months, it can take years of hard work to attain the level of muscularity I believe you are referring to-at least naturally.

    If you are consistent in training (adapting to your feed back), and diet correctly for your goal, you will not recognize your body in a few months of hard work. You will see amazing self improvements. Keep pushing yourself with your eye at the end of the road.


    3. i want to get rid of my belly and love handles.

    [pics removed to save space on post]

    that's me right now (FAT) obviously 225 lbs 5'9"
    And, this is my point: Your primary focus should be in fat-reduction and muscle/strength improvement--especially at the beginning to take advantage of the new adaptive forces at play that "can be" unique to person's just beginning a diet and training program.

    Setting up a simple diet and training program, isn't that difficult, or I should say, doesn't have to be difficult. Some just make too complicated for....there self.

    And you accomplish this through examining:

    1. Your calorie needs particular to your personal stats and amount of activity being performed.

    2. Developing a simple straight-forward full-body routine.

    This can be a circuit fashion, push-pull splits, or what have you, which we can discuss which is better for you, that exercises the main muscle groups, small assistants (like arms, etc), and (IMO) is "metabolically" (and energy [calorie] driven, and progressive as you improve in strength, etc, etc. Cardiovascular training is optional, but if you want to include it we can.

    And, its my opinion (at least for the moment, and currently in your position), that you do not do any direct core work (or at least do not focus on it), but to allow some "selected" main lifts build/improve your core (upper body), and legs. And, then later as your body fat reduces, strength/muscle improves, you can perform some direct core work. Trust me, your core will improve without direct core work, if the proper main-body exercises are selected; the core with strengthen, and even prepare you for more direct work.

    i had eaten a whole bag of sunflower seeds with salt so i think i was retaining water. but reguardless i'm still no where near where i want to be. i quit smoking 3 months ago which helped me workout better but makes losing weight more difficult.
    We have to work on the "contents" of your diet. And, "whole bags" of sunflower seeds, must go......

    This is what we have:

    1. Setup a diet structure

    A. A small caloric deficit to attempt to solicit fat issue loss.

    B. A straight forward macro-nutrient allotment, nothing complicated

    C. A metabolically driven exercise program (as...partially explained, but not in detail above).

    If you want I can provide links, and post information on how to calculate your calorie and macro-nutrient needs. And, how to set up a rather simple straight-forward, non-complicated exercise routine-with what you have to train with.

    What do you have to train with. I may have to go back and re-read your posts, in the event I missed it.

    Glad to assist you.

    Peace to you and much happiness.

    Chillen
    Last edited by Chillen; Jun. 27/09 at 06:03 PM.

  8. #7
    cgrame is offline First Set
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    Chillen, looking at your avatar I feel it's safe to say I would follow you're exercise advice to my grave (lol)

    I agree with everything you said and would love the help. Yesterday I tried a full body workout, it felt awesome.

    3-4 sets
    Shoulder Press
    Inclined Chest
    Bicep Curls
    Back Rows
    Ab Crunches
    Reverse Crunches
    Leg Press
    Tricep Pulldowns

    I know that this is not what you had in mind at all but it was just to see how it would feel. Today is actually my birthday so I am just going to do some cardio before I go out later. But I am interested to know more about the exercises you were talking about. I am a novice so I don't know a lot of what you were saying aka (push-pull splits)

    Overall tho Chillen I want you to know that I'm not working right now so I have A LOT of time to workout. I go to Xsport Fitness. They pretty much have everything available from free weights, machines, cables, pool, sauna, steam room(maybe that helps lose weight? lmao)

    As far as my diet concerns, besides the fact that I am bored at home a lot and want to eat I don't see any reason I can't do what you said. I will say that the dieting is the hardest part for me. I would appreciate if you could help me with this as well.

    Like I said, today is my birthday so even though there is much more I want to write, I actually have to run (literally)

    Thank you for everything so far Chillen I really appreciate all the advice you are giving me, it's making me feel a lot more hopeful already.
    Last edited by cgrame; Jun. 30/09 at 01:58 PM.

  9. #8
    malkore is offline Deceptimod
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    I'd say you were doing back extensions, not 'reverse crunches'...which works the lower abs not the back.

    Tightness right after a set of back extensions or deadlifts is common, especially when you haven't been workign the lower back like that, the tightness can be pretty intense.

    I'd say drop the weight, work on perfection in form, since lower back exercises are definitely something you cna't cheat on without risking severe injury.

  10. #9
    flyinfree is offline aDvansT iN duM
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    Quote Originally Posted by malkore View Post
    I'd say you were doing back extensions, not 'reverse crunches'...which works the lower abs not the back.

    Tightness right after a set of back extensions or deadlifts is common, especially when you haven't been workign the lower back like that, the tightness can be pretty intense.

    I'd say drop the weight, work on perfection in form, since lower back exercises are definitely something you cna't cheat on without risking severe injury.
    GREAT POST!!!

    and I would add- stretch your hamstrings regularly.... those hammies can really pull and compact that area, and now you are adding a weighted resistance move.

    Sweat Daily

    ff

  11. #10
    Stormus08 is offline In Orientation
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    bump!!!!!!!

  12. #11
    Chillen is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgrame View Post
    Chillen, looking at your avatar I feel it's safe to say I would follow you're exercise advice to my grave (lol)
    While that is me in the avatar, do not base advice on how someone looks.

    What worked for me may not work for you, you may have a different path to your goal (s). While I am humbled by your words: you always keep your eyes open, and brain worken' and never, ever, stop learning.

    Reaching your goal will be a learn as you go process.

    I have a few things on my plate, and if I do not post to this thread in a while, do not think I forgot you, feel free to PM me, and we can finish it up in this thread, unless someone picks up where where we left off, of which, I can still provide some input as necessary.

    Overall tho Chillen I want you to know that I'm not working right now so I have A LOT of time to workout. I go to Xsport Fitness. They pretty much have everything available from free weights, machines, cables, pool, sauna, steam room(maybe that helps lose weight? lmao)
    I hope your employment disposition changes. And, yes the gym you described, is more than you need to reach your....fitness promise land, young man.


    As far as my diet concerns, besides the fact that I am bored at home a lot and want to eat I don't see any reason I can't do what you said. I will say that the dieting is the hardest part for me. I would appreciate if you could help me with this as well.
    This is the area I want to get you started on, first. Let make something clear. While you have to create an appropriate energy deficit, and you will experience some hunger-pains to deal with logically, you do not have to make yourself suffer. And, I can touch base on certain ideas on what to do about hunger-pains that may be suited to you through more discussion.

    You are: 225 lbs 5'9", and male......How old are you? I am going to use, about 22, if you slightly younger or slightly older, the calorie variance is nominal. I can send you the Excel spread sheet I am going to use if you want; its based off the Harris-Benedict formula, and you can adjust your age when you receive it.

    Here is the pic of your "approximated" calorie needs for varying activity levels, based on your personal particulars:



    When you get this Excel spread sheet, all you have to do, is plug in the multiplier in the white box under the heading "Activity Multiplier", and the yellow/gold box to he right, of the white box will display your approximated calories for that amount of activity.

    For example, the pic is showing a 1.5 multiplier, and approximated calories of: 3290.75, this is your MT-Line, at that projected activity level. This would assume exercising "approximately 3/4 times per week". Now, I want to make something clear. Its, my opinion that this "level" of calories are for the days that you "actually-do-train/exercise", and NOT the calorie-projection for the days you do not train, as the activity level is different, though you have recovery to consider. Though you could run this blanket approximate, and then create an appropriate deficit from it, I would recommend calculating your approximate calories when you do not train (off day), which will be lower, and then adjust a calorie deficit from this figure.

    Here is an example:

    This can be 1.2, or 1.3 (since you are not employed). I will use 1.3 (lightly active):



    This would bring your MT-Line to approximately: 2851.99. NOw if you look at your training/exercise day, and compare it to this one, there is an obvious calorie difference, mainly because your activity is lower, and you have lower calorie needs (albeit a little extra for recovery, or at least aide recovery in a lower recovery state, since your in a deficit, but you should do well here being so new; your body hopefully will be quite the super compensator, at-least for a time).

    Each figure (above) you would agree to a deficit margin. Fore example, lets use the exercise figure of: 3290.75. From this approximated MT-Line, you would (say for example), take off -500c, or 2790.12.

    The 2828 is what you would eat each day, theoretically creating an energy deficit of -500, which a step toward your tissue loss.

    I would leave (at present, until your body says other wise), your macro-nutrients, normal within your MT-Line ranges being used, BUT....ensure you get/keep your protein UP to snuff (especially in a deficit). I can show you how to do this. Its easy. This isn't all that complicated. Really.

    I will let you absorb this, and post more soon. If you have questions let me know. IN addition if you want the excel program, PM me your e-mail address.

    Like I said, today is my birthday so even though there is much more I want to write, I actually have to run (literally)
    Happy B-DAY! How young are ya! Hope it was a good one.

    Thank you for everything so far Chillen I really appreciate all the advice you are giving me, it's making me feel a lot more hopeful already.
    You are very, very, welcome. This is what the forum is for. You have every reason to be hopeful and excited. You have just began the road to a new you.


    Best wishes,

    Chillen
    Last edited by Chillen; Jul. 03/09 at 03:42 PM.

  13. #12
    Chillen is offline Banned
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    I will also e-mail you some material to read:

    1. On diet

    2. Various quality material on strength training.

    Since you have the time. Furthermore, I will e-mail you some remedies I used to combat hunger and other issues.

    Must stop at nothing to assist a brother-in-the fight.

    Shoot this to the fat you want off:




    Lets get it on......


    Best wishes

    Chillen
    Last edited by Chillen; Jul. 03/09 at 06:05 PM.

  14. #13
    Chillen is offline Banned
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    Or if you wish, you can e-mail me at:

    dcrews2@kc.rr.com

    Look forward to your correspondence!

    Have a good 4th of July!

    Best wishes

    Chillen

  15. #14
    Chillen is offline Banned
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    CGrame.......You still with us man?

    Been a few days, hope things are well.


    Chillen

  16. #15
    cgrame is offline First Set
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    Hey Chillen, how was you're 4th? Mine was a bit crazy, that's why it took me so long to get back here.

    My email is CMTG30@gmail.com

    So basically I should knock 500c off (what i should be consuming in the first place)

    I think the thing that confuses me most about this dude is that if i start counting calories, what about the other things like carbos, fat, sat fat?

    i spoke with the guy at the deli down the block from me and he is going to hook me up with a deal on grilled chicken since i can't really cook.

    I did suck a little bit with the drinking (and i had motzarella cheese fries one night) but i have been doing full body workouts like you said which i feel have already started improving my physical appearance. maybe it's just cause i'm pumped up all the time tho, haha.

    ty very much for the diet info chillen, i will start putting it to use immediately and i will start keeping a food journal so you can see exactly what's going on.

    btw i was thinking i have def been consuming way more calories than i should be and the sick part is i don't even feel like i'm stuffing my face.

    today i ate

    rice krispies + skim milk
    whole whear bagel + veggie light tuna
    ranch 1 (chicken fajita wrap+fries+diet coke) honey mustard/kethup
    small cherry coke in the movies
    worked out
    hooters (2 Coors light beers + 10 wings) blue cheese
    a handful of unsalted sunflower seeds

    i had to have consumed like 5k calories or more. im kinda shocked that i am not bigger than i am with the way i eat. i think writing down what i'm eating will seriously help me out too, what do you think man?
    Last edited by cgrame; Jul. 07/09 at 11:53 PM. Reason: forgot something

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