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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Lightbulb Trying to get abs, how much fat should I lose?! I have pictures!

    10.7 stone
    17 years old

    Hey there people! it's been a while since I last posted a fitness problem of mine and this time I have a picture.

    I am trying to get abs, at my current stage I CAN feel the six pack underneath and when I pinch the lower bit (where the most fat is) it feels as if there is about 1cm- sound likely?

    I currently go to the Gym every other day and seeing as I always use the cross trainer for my cardio (and I do about 30mins) I am getting pretty good at it am going to start using the treadmill as I think it's probably more effective?!

    So yea, also what do you think my BF% is roughly?

    I read that 12% should be about right for visible abs, so that must mean I don't have that.
    Other than that I literally have no idea seeing as I used an electronic bf thingy and long story but basically they seem pretty unaccurate.

    Cheers, you ppl rock!
    p.s and be nice! It took alot of guts for someone as insecure as myself to post a picture on the web!
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    Hi juicyrooter,

    take a look here:
    Fast Muscle Building: 15 Bodybuilding Secrets

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  4. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Getting the abs to show is DIET control and plan of attack plan--FIRST.

    Then when (and if, genetics willing) one gets the abs to show, it is also difficult to MAINTAIN (I believe it can be just as hard or simular as compared to the road to get them to show). Though one has to have a DIET PLAN for the Abs, once there, one has to have a MAINTAIN PLAN (if this is long term goal)

    Personally, I wouldnt be too concerned (or overly concerned with BF%). True, one has to drop body fat low enough to see the abs. However, with proper DIET and "complimenting" this DIET with appropriate "overall" bodily exercise, you will lower your body fat, and let yourself be the critical judge. (You could drop another 1% bf and still not see them (possibly), this is why I say dont be overly concerned with BF, unless you want to track this).

    If you can FEEL THEM, this slightly indicates to me that the abs sheet already has abs squares already there (if you will), and the genetics are possibly there already in place.

    The small portion of fat must be removed to clearly see them, however. And as this is removed, ab torso definition will surface itself to you according to your genetic composition and DIET control.

    You will get some GOOD OPINIONS ON THIS, however, you need to give more detailed information about yourself for others to help.

    for example, your age (17, we have), weight (I have no idea what stone is, lol),and height, as these are important factors in giving the advice you are seeking. Like learning your caloric MT (maintenance Line, and working with this on a higher or lower level) and tayloring a program circumference around this. In addition, is getting the abs to show, ALL you seek?

    Now remember something young man: I dont know your knowledge of diet and exercise, but I feel the need to tell you, that you do NOT get abs by bombarding the abs with exercises thinking this will make them show, nor can you spot reduce. Some persons with proper genetics have gotten abs with no cardio or ab exercises. Some dont work them at all (as one can get indirect torso/ab work done through other indirect exercises, example, Squats). Arm yourself with knowledge about the GOAL YOU DESIRE--IT WILL REWARD YOU 10 times more than the time you put in it, I promise.

    Get your DIET straight, EAT CLEAN, couple this with a training program. ASK QUESTIONS and give information, and you will get it.

    As for me, my body responds WELL with cardio (and yes I HATE IT, but I DO IT, and thats that BAH! to my dislike, I am just more stubborn than the dislike for cardio--mental thingy), and I get good response through just deficit dieting coupled with squats, deadlifts, BACK, and lastly ab work.

    I bring this up for a point: You have to find out what works for you, but I believe in the begining we can assume some fundelmental (for sake of arguement) basics to get you started.

    YOUR HEAD IS YOUR LEADER: its like screwing in a light bulb: Twist your mind INTO YOUR GOAL, and IT WILL LIGHT THE HELL UP! (LOL, just dont let it POP!)

    DONT BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF! There will be no one on this forum, worth their weight in gold, that is going to attack you for displaying your STARTING POINT pics, etc. THIS IS WHAT ITS ABOUT! ROCK ON, BE HARD, BE MOTIVATED, LOOK AT YOUR GOAL, SEE YOUR GOAL, and walk up to it and SMILE, and snicker at the same time, and rip its face off! And, my tradional statement: if you fall 5 times, get up 6 times, the trick is getting back up: As staying down is just that, your gonna stay down and get no where, but getting back up, gives you another chance to head butt its @ss. GO BRA!

    Seek and you shall find: There are many paths one can take in a journey and many forks in the road. But, when you properly educate yourself in the goal you seek, this will allow you to learn which fork to take and lead you to your goal.

    As you get advice, remember this: There are no bad bodily feedbacks in my opinion whether its negative or positive. The negative portion may not be the one you wanted, but its feedback and SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING, and how you handle this can determine alot of different things on your journey toward you goal.

    Off topic: By the way, LOL, you have the typical messy bed room, if this is yours in the background of your photo (LOL).
    Last edited by Chillen; Jun. 08/07 at 08:09 AM. Reason: Just more rambling,lol

  5. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2007


    cheers for the very motivational advice mate! I'll certainly take this on board.
    On the topic of lack of information:

    -I'm roughly 149 Pounds/68kg
    -I go to the gym every other day for at least 1hour 30mins, half the time is cardio, the rest weights.
    -I'm vegetarian and almost never have fizzy drinks or any junk food (I had 2 cans of lemonade yesterday and before then it was months and months ago)
    I like to think I eat pretty healthily really, perhaps I eat alot of the food I do have though.
    -I'm 17
    -I'm 5 ft 10
    -3 months ago I went to India for 6 weeks and I lost 1 stone! Although this could suggest the change in diet is what made me lose weight, also consider I was climbing mountains and carrying a 20 kg rucksack around! since being back I've been going to the gym every other day (I did use to go before India aswell, but not as often)

    I understand I am pretty typical of my age in wanting abs, but I suppose what I ultimately want is a better body and it seems to me by having abs it is a physical goal/achievement that can be touched if you get what I mean, like you know when you've suceeded in training and such.

    Thanks again. Hope this new info helps somewhat.

  6. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Hey ppl!

    When I originally posted my picture however long ago I got some Brilliant advice from Chillen but I think I wasn't clear what direction I was to go in so I just kept lifting and doing cardio and now I have a more recent photo of my progress.

    My current routine since a few days ago (Wednesday) is as follows:

    Wednesday - Run 7 Miles
    Saturday - Run 7 Miles

    And then I tend to just run a few miles here and there when I have time and I haven't actually done much lifting recently but I'm going to buy some dumbells probably today.

    Is this effective to lose the fat? I always watch calories and I have around 2500 a day and I'm Vegetarian.

    I am finding it hard to lose fat as I am so much leaner I am finding it hard, so what does everyone think? oh and what do you think of my progress since the last photo?

    I am quite serious when I say if someone here sets an amount of miles to run or lift or whatever a week that will get me abs by the new year I WILL do it, I am the sort of person that will do something If it will definately work.

    Thanks everyone.
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  7. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    What is your weight training routine like (you didnt mention this) during the course of the week? Have you figured your MT line? And, if so, what is it? Remember, if you want to run that many miles and are weight training, you MUST factor in the calories burned during these times to get somewhat close to your MT line, and then adjust from this. You are pretty lean now, and from the looks of the pic--have you considered a bulk period? Its all about YOUR goals and what YOU want. If being lean and small is what you desire then so be it, YOU be the judge of what you want and desire.

    Judging from the pic, you do have the ab core structure to get a very appealing torso, but I would consider building a bit of mass in the chest, shoulder, and arms (and legs of course), as this would compliment the torso at a---later time. Just a thought. ROCK ON BROTHA!

    Ill come back and check in with the Brotha.

    Its been a while, hope things are going good in life for ya!
    Last edited by Chillen; Sep. 15/07 at 09:42 AM.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Hiya! Yea life is good thanks, and yourself?!
    I'm afraid I'm not familiar with "MT" and I tried searching it, sorry. Explain, please!
    Well in terms of my Weight routine, I haven't lifted much recently as I've been trying to remove excess fat (do you think I should be running as much as I am?)
    as I can pinch at least a Centimetre of fat around my lower abs.

    I am going to order some weights in a minute though so you tell me what I should be doing if that's ok? I'll stick to it.
    I'm ordering Dumbells and a bench with up to 50kg (my maximum is 40 kg bench press if that means anything)


  9. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    I will post this information for you as soon as I can........No problem!

    Glad to see you back!

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Hi there, I just thought I'd check in to say I carried the weights home on Monday, got the Bench yesterday and it's all set up now

    So what would you say the best method/plan of attack would be to bulk up?

    Many Thanks, Rob.

  11. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007

    How much weight did you get? The bench will work just fine for now--congrats on the new bench!!!

    Im just letting you know Im online.........I will post some basic things on diet in a sec,,,,,,,,,,,,be just a few minutes!

    ROCK with the fricken bench DUDE!
    Last edited by Chillen; Sep. 19/07 at 07:47 AM.

  12. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Abs are litterally made in the kitchen: Its a function of low body fat.

    Deficit dieting is the MAIN thing that does the job.

    Some Basic information that can lead you to fat tissue loss

    Calorie calculation is an approximation science, remember this. Through your journey WATCH, LOOK, and LISTEN, to your will TELL YOU if your doing the correct things or combination of things!

    ○ Change your eating habits (below are some suggestion examples)

    ○ Substitute an artificial sweetener of your choice in the replace of refined white sugar (Refrain from Refined Sugar like you would a disease)

    ○ Try eating 5 to 6 smaller meals during the day

    ○ Balance your meals out during the day so in one day you have a mix of protein, carbohydrate and good fats

    ○ Drink lots of water during the day and before, during and after exercise

    ○ Simple Carb Examples: Grapefruit, Watermelon, Cantaloupe, Strawberries, Oranges, Apples, Pineapple, etc

    ○ Complex Carb Examples: Whole Wheat Pita Bread, Oatmeal, Long Grain Brown Rice, Brown Pasta, Malto-Meal (Plain, whole wheat),etc

    ○ Good Protein Examples: White or Dark Tuna, Chicken Breast, Lean Turkey, Lean Ham, Very lean Beef, Quality Whey Protein Powder,, etc

    ○ Good Fats Examples: Natural Peanut Butter, Various Nuts, Flax Seed, Fish Oils.

    This is what you need to do:

    This an approximation science, but you can narrow it down very close, if your meticulous in your vision when looking at the data.

    Tweak your desire and passion by educating yourself on the basic requirements of losing fat tissue. With your age, sex, height, and weight, in mind, find your approximated base calorie needs (this is organ function, breathing, or bodily function needs). One can use the Benedict Formula.

    Calculate your BMR:

    The Harris Benedict equation determines calorie needs for men or woman as follows:

    • It calculates your Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) calorie requirements, based on your height, weight, age and gender.

    • It increases your BMR calorie needs by taking into account the number of calories you burn through activities such as exercise.

    This gives you your total calorie requirement or approximated Maintenance Line (I call it the MT Line).

    Step One : Calculate your BMR with the following formula:

    •Women: BMR = 655 + (4.35 x weight in pounds) + (4.7 x height in inches) - (4.7 x age in years)
    •Men: BMR = 66 + (6.23 x weight in pounds) + (12.7 x height in inches) - (6.8 x age in years)

    Step Two : In order to incorporate activity into your daily caloric needs, do the following calculation:

    •If you are sedentary : BMR x 1.2
    •If you are lightly active: BMR x 1.375
    •If you are moderately active (You exercise most days a week.): BMR x 1.55
    •If you are very active (You exercise daily.): BMR x 1.725
    •If you are extra active (You do hard labor or are in athletic training.): BMR x 1.9

    Create a Calorie Deficit:

    In order to lose weight, you must create a calorie deficit. It is easier and healthier to cut back your calorie intake a little bit at a time.

    Every 3,500 calories is equivalent to approximated 1 pound.

    If you cut back 500 calories a day, you will lose approximated 1 pound per week. (not necessarily all fat)

    If you exercise to burn off 500 calories a day you will also lose approximately 1 pound per week.

    The calorie deficit margin is just an example:

    Apply this knowledge by backing off the approximated MT Line (approximated Maintenance line), say for example, a -500c per day, for about 1 week. Before the week begins, weigh yourself in the AM when you FIRST get up (do not eat yet) (remember your clothing, preferably with just underwear and t-shirt or like clothes). Note the time, and the approximated wgt.
    Each day spread your caloric content out throughout the day (keep the body fed, with calories in the 300 to 500c approximated calories each meal), or a like division which mirrors your end caloric deficit limit (meaning MT-500c).

    This way you have your entire day and body encircled with nutrition (I assume you already know to eat clean), which if your eating right, will give an approximated good energy (not optimal because your in deficit) to fuel your training and exercising schedule.

    At the end of the week, on the same day, the same time, with the same like clothes, weigh yourself again. Note whether you lost or gained tissue (or weight I mean). To further assist you, I want to tell you that for every approximated caloric deficit of (-3500c), one could lose 1lb of fat tissue. (though some may not all be fat tissue, this information is for another question, and isn't presently suited here).

    Now, in this example you were calculating a -500c per day deficit. There needs to be -3500c to lose approximated 1lbs of fat. Now lets do some basic math. -500cX7=-3500c. With all things considered equal, and you were meticulous and faithful on the diet, you should have been CLOSE to losing at least one pound of tissue in the week.

    If this didn't happen, this means you need to make finer adjustments, and the MT line is not accurate, and you need to adjust this on your own.

    Based upon the FEEDBACK your body is giving you, ask yourself how faithful you were on the diet, AND how faithful in training (whether you kept the training schedule (if you didn't, this would effect the caloric equation, no?!), AND how accurate you figured in your activities caloric wise.........but, you have the base information to begin making adjustments.

    The calorie SURPLUS margin is just an example: (attempt to gain weight)

    Apply this knowledge by going OVER the approximated MT Line (approximated Maintenance line), say for example, a +500c per day, for about 1 week. Before the week begins, weigh yourself in the AM when you FIRST get up (do not eat yet) (remember your clothing, preferably with just underwear and t-shirt or like clothes). Note the time, and the approximated wgt.
    Each day spread your caloric content out throughout the day (keep the body fed, with calories in the 300 to 500c approximated calories each meal), or a like division which mirrors your end caloric deficit limit (meaning MT+500c).

    This way you have your entire day and body encircled with nutrition (I assume you already know to eat clean), which if your eating right, will give an approximated good energy (not optimal because your in deficit) to fuel your training and exercising schedule.

    At the end of the week, on the same day, the same time, with the same like clothes, weigh yourself again. Note whether you lost or gained tissue (or weight I mean).

    If this didn't happen, this means you need to make finer adjustments, and the MT line is not accurate, and you need to adjust this on your own


    The Nutrients are an essential factor in the diet; however, the law of energy balance within the DIET, is the ultimate KING while the Nutrients can play in some decisions made within the body.

    Do yourself a favor, figure out your MT line, adjust off of this, eat well balanced spaced out meals (DONT EVER starve YOURSELF), AND listen to your body for the results.

    While you are trying to figure out your body, IT WILL PAY YOU BACK, I promise. You have to learn to MASTER yourself to become the master of weight loss for YOURSELF.
    "Let your inner vision cultivate your ultimate exterior expression" —Chillen

    "The strongest inner feeling that prevails will result in the exterior expression" –Chillen

    "Your cultivation and manifestation of thought accumulated within your reasoning will determine your outcome"----Chillen
    Deficit dieting is the fat burner, and EVERYTHING follows after this. The deficit can be implemented through the diet or exercise can cause the deficit when you know your MT line reference. Without a adequate deficit, cardio WILL NOT burn fat off you. This is WHY I don't partake in the cardio debates of heart rate, etc........because the bottom line is the deficit diet....period, debate OVER. If you stick to the basic: The Law of energy balance, and tip this to the negative side of the equation, you will be on your way, with everything considered equal and your healthy.

    Losing fat is sort of like draining a pool. It usually leaves the shallow end first before the larger end starts to diminish. But, fat and/or tissue is lost all over when deficit dieting.

    If you want to lose overall body fat, get your diet in order, eat clean, learn what your approximate MT reference line is according to activities (and back off a HEALTHY margin), and perform overall weight training, and of course, include cardio (cardio DOES have its benefits other than burning calories, carbs, fat, ect).

    The most effective beginning is to look at your diet, and make a diet journal in my opinion, THEN work in a training program around this diet.


    You need in my opinion controlled obsession (and obsession to a---Point, is necessary), but some lose this obsession once they learn the amount of work it requires. There eyes then widen and then the obsession then pops right out. Dont let this happen to you: Raise your Want-o-Meter to a new higher level.

    Best Regards,


    More coming.........juicy..........

  13. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Weight Progression

    Weight progression EXAMPLE:

    A Weight Program is a structured "Weight Lifting" Plan that you schedule certain exercises for a given time period.

    For example: Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Rest Saturday and Sunday, and then repeat.

    For example (for simplicity's sake), schedule a full body workout on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and then rest on the weekend. The program should be complimenting the sort of diet you have and the goals you seek.

    I recommend a writing down the exercises, weight being used, and then keeping track of the reps completed---to track progression, and if need be enable FORCE progression techniques. The KEY to training, is PROGRESSION. Trying with FULL THROTTLE to progress from one workout to the next (whether its an increase in reps or weight or both).

    For example: you used 100lbs on Bent Over row and did 8 reps. The next workout with the back you want to get 9 reps, and so on and so forth. If the target cut off rep range is 12 (for example), then you would increase about 5 lbs. This is progression in its simple basic form.

    I believe you have to track progress because its CRITICAL to ones success and to strength and/or muscle gains.

    More coming juicy...............I have to keep you ROOTED........
    Last edited by Chillen; Sep. 19/07 at 07:29 AM.

  14. #12
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Getting started

    This is what you need to do:

    1. Get the diet right
    2. Have a training schedule each week (that involves full body)

    As far as ab or torso training:

    1. Squats: A powerful BEAST: this exercise incorporates the torso indirectly, besides the obvious benefit of leg work, it does give the torso a good indirect workout

    2. Deadlifts: Another POWERFUL BEAST: indirect torso workout and overall strength and size builder

    3. Keep the reps for the abs and torso at 25 or below, and add weight if necessary (the torso and abs are a high endurance muscle, but you dont want to to 100 reps, this is rediculous)

    Start out with no weight until you reach the first set of 25 reps. IF on the first set you reach 25R, then add a 2 1/2 lb plate (as an example) on the second set, and then continue, and then do a 3rd. Be progressive. Each time the FIRST set hits 25, add weight.

    Types of excercises: (these are just examples, and these examples can change dependent upon what you have accesss to: Crunch, Reverse crunch. Hanging leg raises, Leg lifts are a few starting examples. Pick one, AND do 3 sets. At the begining I suggest just one exercise of 3 sets, and as you progress you can add in another--just for simplicity sake.

    I include weighted half-up sit ups (about 30 degrees up or thereabouts--some dont like these because it involves the hip flexors, but I get good strength volume from it, so see if works for you.

    Schedule this about 3 times a week, and treat it as any other muscle. Allow rest time: this example gives about 4 days in one week.

    But remember, doing these exercises isnt the the key in getting the abs to show, its the diet that does this. The exercises will strengthen the area no doubt, but place the diet above these exercises. Be PROGRESSIVE in the ab area as you are in your other training.
    Last edited by Chillen; Sep. 19/07 at 08:43 AM.

  15. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Wow, you want to lose weight? There's not an ounce of fat on you.

    My advice would be to up your calories, cut the SS cardio and hit your compound lifts hard. At your current size it wouldn't matter if you had 3% body fat; your abs would be fairly unimpressive because your volume of muscle is low

  16. #14
    Join Date
    May 2007

    JuicyRooter will put the SCOOTER in his mental COMPUTER and become his body TUTOR

  17. #15
    Join Date
    May 2007

    If you decide your gonna gain tissue

    If you decide your going to put on lean tissue:

    The Diet is the first place one looks if there not gaining good weight, and the first issue is the amount of calories, and then whether your eating enough nutrients to allow some growth decisions to occur in the body.

    Adjust this very thing, correctly, you will gain weight. Secondly, you do want appropriate amount of "Stimulation" for growth (to allow the extra calories to do its job), this "Stimulation" is the weight training, and Third, you want to allow "rest and recuperation" to allow the body to use the calories and nutrients from the appropriate "Stimulation" for growth to occur.

    If its loss of tissue its the same ratio of issues to look at but a tad different

    Hi juicyrooter,

    take a look here:
    Muscle Milk Genuine Protein Powder

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